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Did the state make you great?

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    Stoner Stoner rollinbud's Avatar
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    Default Did the state make you great?

    By Charles Krauthammer, “If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” — Barack Obama, Roanoke, Va., July 13

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...iwW_story.html
    “President Obama’s first term worked out well for his donors who got special access and taxpayer money for their failed ventures. It hasn’t worked as well for the 23 million Americans struggling for work in the worst economic recovery our country has ever had.

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    Marijuana EXPERT Mr. Ganja beardo's Avatar
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    Thank you Indonesia

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    Super Stoner Mr. Ganja canndo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollinbud View Post
    By Charles Krauthammer, “If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” — Barack Obama, Roanoke, Va., July 13 And who might that somebody else be? Government, says Obama. It built the roads you drive on. It provided the teacher who inspired you. It “created the Internet.” It represents the embodiment of “we’re in this together” social solidarity that, in Obama’s view, is the essential origin of individual and national achievement. To say that all individuals are embedded in and the product of society is banal. Obama rises above banality by means of fallacy: equating society with government, the collectivity with the state. Of course we are shaped by our milieu. But the most formative, most important influence on the individual is not government. It is civil society, those elements of the collectivity that lie outside government: family, neighborhood, church, Rotary club, PTA, the voluntary associations that Tocqueville understood to be the genius of America and source of its energy and freedom. Moreover, the greatest threat to a robust, autonomous civil society is the ever-growing Leviathan state and those like Obama who see it as the ultimate expression of the collective. Obama compounds the fallacy by declaring the state to be the font of entrepreneurial success. How so? It created the infrastructure — roads, bridges, schools, Internet — off which we all thrive. Absurd. We don’t credit the Swiss postal service with the Special Theory of Relativity because it transmitted Einstein’s manuscript to the Annalen der Physik. Everyone drives the roads, goes to school, uses the mails. So did Steve Jobs. Yet only he created the Mac and the iPad. Obama’s infrastructure argument is easily refuted by what is essentially a controlled social experiment. Roads and schools are the constant. What’s variable is the energy, enterprise, risk-taking, hard work and genius of the individual. It is therefore precisely those individual characteristics, not the communal utilities, that account for the different outcomes. The ultimate Obama fallacy, however, is the conceit that belief in the value of infrastructure — and willingness to invest in its creation and maintenance — is what divides liberals from conservatives. More nonsense. Infrastructure is not a liberal idea, nor is it particularly new. The Via Appia was built 2,300 years ago. The Romans built aqueducts, too. And sewers. Since forever, infrastructure has been consensually understood to be a core function of government. The argument between left and right is about what you do beyond infrastructure. It’s about transfer payments and redistributionist taxation, about geometrically expanding entitlements, about tax breaks and subsidies to induce actions pleasing to central planners. It’s about free contraceptives for privileged students and welfare without work — the latest Obama entitlement-by-decree that would fatally undermine the great bipartisan welfare reform of 1996. It’s about endless government handouts that, ironically, are crowding out necessary spending on, yes, infrastructure. What divides liberals and conservatives is not roads and bridges but Julia’s world, an Obama campaign creation that may be the most self-revealing parody of liberalism ever conceived. It’s a series of cartoon illustrations in which a fictional Julia is swaddled and subsidized throughout her life by an all- giving government of bottomless pockets and “Queen for a Day” magnanimity. At every stage, the state is there to provide — preschool classes and cut-rate college loans, birth control and maternity care, business loans and retirement. The only time she’s on her own is at her grave site. Julia’s world is totally atomized. It contains no friends, no community and, of course, no spouse. Who needs one? She’s married to the provider state. Or to put it slightly differently, the “Life of Julia” represents the paradigmatic Obama political philosophy: citizen as orphan child. For the conservative, providing for every need is the duty that government owes to actual orphan children. Not to supposedly autonomous adults. Beyond infrastructure, the conservative sees the proper role of government as providing not European-style universal entitlements but a firm safety net, meaning Julia-like treatment for those who really cannot make it on their own — those too young or too old, too mentally or physically impaired, to provide for themselves. Limited government so conceived has two indispensable advantages. It avoids inexorable European-style national insolvency. And it avoids breeding debilitating individual dependency. It encourages and celebrates character, independence, energy, hard work as the foundations of a free society and a thriving economy — precisely the virtues Obama discounts and devalues in his accounting of the wealth of nations. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...iwW_story.html


    This is the ultimate straw man argument. A civil society does not "lie outside of government", it lies squarely within it, it is defined by it, nurtured by it, protected by it and even enforced by it.
    Argue for your opinion because it is true, not because it is your opinion.
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    Mr.Ganja Mr. Ganja beenthere's Avatar
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    I love me some Charles Krauthammer.

    To be honest, the only thing the federal government and the state of California have done for me regarding starting and running a business, was get in the way and charge me out the ass in fees, regulations and taxes!

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    Super Stoner Mr. Ganja londonfog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    I love me some Charles Krauthammer.

    To be honest, the only thing the federal government and the state of California have done for me regarding starting and running a business, was get in the way and charge me out the ass in fees, regulations and taxes!
    what type of business are you in ???
    Think I will now grow hops and make the best beers ever....CHEERS
    Quote Originally Posted by Canna Sylvan View Post
    Racist for a cause.

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    Mr.Ganja Mr. Ganja beenthere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by londonfog View Post
    what type of business are you in ???
    Construction business in Ca.
    Moses Mobetta likes this.

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    Super Stoner Mr. Ganja londonfog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Construction business in Ca.
    how do you get your contracts ???
    Think I will now grow hops and make the best beers ever....CHEERS
    Quote Originally Posted by Canna Sylvan View Post
    Racist for a cause.

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    Mr.Ganja Mr. Ganja beenthere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by londonfog View Post
    how do you get your contracts ???
    The private insurance industry and the wealthy.
    Johnny Retro likes this.

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    Mr.Ganja Mr. Ganja Rob Roy's Avatar
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    The state has no money of it's own, it 's all stolen from private citizens. The state is the single biggest murderer of people throughout history. Fighting for a "team" against other people that have never harmed you is absurd.

    The U.S. killed the indigenous people, stole their land and then made slaves stolen from Africa build their white house. The state incarcerated U.S. citizens in WW II in concentration camps because they were ethnically Japanese. The state has waged a war on self ownership and arrested about 22 million people since 1965 over a plant. The present empire is deep in debt and is the only one to use nuclear weapons aganst helpless civilians...I could go on and on....

    Hooray, the state sure is great.
    AN ACT OF RESPECT WHEN DEMANDED BECOMES AN ACT OF SUBMISSION

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    The speach really has been a lightning rod. The essentials of what was said, to my understanding, is that a balanced budget requires both an increase in taxes and cuts in spending. Obama was highlighting how important some government investment is. Conservatives typically believe in incremental change, which includes a balanced approach to reducing deficits. The GOP has moved considerably right on this issue.

    Here is an interesting editorial stating that Obama is actually, by some definitions, more conservative than Romney.

    http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast....obamacons.html

    Here is the Wiki definition of conservatism:
    Conservatism (Latin: conservare, "to retain") is a political and social philosophy that promotes retaining traditional institutions and supports, at most, minimal and gradual change in society. A person who follows the philosophies of conservatism is referred to as a traditionalist or conservative.

    Ask yourself, who is seeking minimal and gradual change in this election? Who is the conservative?
    Last edited by Nitegazer; 08-08-2012 at 03:34 PM.

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