epic win

Originally Posted by Red1966

You are the exception rather than the rule when it comes to the insults. The OP is the worst offender here. The habit of ignoring evidence contrary to a point of view makes debate here unfruitfull. The poor have ID to get welfare and other benefits, nearly all drive. Requiring ID to vote is not undue burden. Claiming it is, is silly. Claiming 1% control the outcome of an election is asinine. Not requiring ID is a open invitation to fraud. Those claiming "voter suppression" are generally the ones committing vote fraud. That Democrats tried to suppress the vote of active military personnel in the Gore-Bush election went unreported by the liberal media. Al Gore tried to steal an election, enriched himself promoting carbon credits and taking bribes from "green industries", yet is considered a great statesman by the left. When your leaders are scum-buckets like that, you can not be taken seriously.

I don't ignore evidence, do you? Now have you any evidence to sustain your assertions? Not all poor are on welfare and I stated in another post that anyone on any sort of assistance would probably have acceptable ID (if it was unacceptable, would you have a problem with that?)

Now I would like to see your stats for "most poor drive" but it isn't relevent really. You are saying repeating the same mantra without offering any more evidence than any one else here "Not requiring ID is an open invitation to fraud", it may well be but this country has not much required ID in the past and there is little evidence of the fraud you so fear. Show me the evidence of widespread voter fraud, it is a fairly simple request (oh, and denying evidence of large numbers of people without ID is NOT evidence of fraud).

Show me the evidence that says that those who claim voter supression (such as the Brennen center for justice) is guilty of voter fraud. Show me the evidence that Gore "tried to steal the election", where it is entirely possible that I can demonstrate that Bush did just that. What has carbon credits (a Heretage foundation construct by the way) to do with this discussion?

Originally Posted by canndo

I don't ignore evidence, do you? Now have you any evidence to sustain your assertions? Not all poor are on welfare and I stated in another post that anyone on any sort of assistance would probably have acceptable ID (if it was unacceptable, would you have a problem with that?)

Now I would like to see your stats for "most poor drive" but it isn't relevent really. You are saying repeating the same mantra without offering any more evidence than any one else here "Not requiring ID is an open invitation to fraud", it may well be but this country has not much required ID in the past and there is little evidence of the fraud you so fear. Show me the evidence of widespread voter fraud, it is a fairly simple request (oh, and denying evidence of large numbers of people without ID is NOT evidence of fraud).

Show me the evidence that says that those who claim voter supression (such as the Brennen center for justice) is guilty of voter fraud. Show me the evidence that Gore "tried to steal the election", where it is entirely possible that I can demonstrate that Bush did just that. What has carbon credits (a Heretage foundation construct by the way) to do with this discussion?

If the don't have ID they better now, because its required at the hospital and doctors office with your insurance card.

Originally Posted by nontheist

If the don't have ID they better now, because its required at the hospital and doctors office with your insurance card.

Excelent point, perhaps this entire argument is now moot.

Originally Posted by canndo

I don't ignore evidence, do you? Now have you any evidence to sustain your assertions? Not all poor are on welfare and I stated in another post that anyone on any sort of assistance would probably have acceptable ID (if it was unacceptable, would you have a problem with that?) Now I would like to see your stats for "most poor drive" but it isn't relevent really. You are saying repeating the same mantra without offering any more evidence than any one else here "Not requiring ID is an open invitation to fraud", it may well be but this country has not much required ID in the past and there is little evidence of the fraud you so fear. Show me the evidence of widespread voter fraud, it is a fairly simple request (oh, and denying evidence of large numbers of people without ID is NOT evidence of fraud). Show me the evidence that says that those who claim voter supression (such as the Brennen center for justice) is guilty of voter fraud. Show me the evidence that Gore "tried to steal the election", where it is entirely possible that I can demonstrate that Bush did just that. What has carbon credits (a Heretage foundation construct by the way) to do with this discussion?

Gore sent 1500 "observers" to polling places in Florida. They demanded that absentee ballots from overseas military bases that were not post marked by the US post office with the correct date be discarded. The military has their own mail system and letters are not post marked with a date. Some election officials refused to do so, but many did, and thousands of legitimate ballots were thrown away. Those "observers" confiscated those ballots and they were never seen again. You can't demonstrate Bush stole the election because that's just another Democrat lie. Actually, until recently, ID was require to vote. Until recently, there was no absentee voting to speak of, so vote fraud was less of a problem. Demanding evidence of widespread vote fraud is misdirection and dishonest. Vote fraud doesn't have to be widespread to change the outcome of an election and you know that. Using UncleShitBritches tactics of misdirection is not legitimate. Do you really want to emulate that troll? Picking one organization and demanding I prove they committed a criminal offense is lame. Can you give us the name and address of every poor person who doesn't have ID?

Originally Posted by canndo

It does not exist, JAH, now, are you contending that popularity is truth? or are you saying that hatred is very profitable?

No, I'm saying stupidity is unpopular. Thus, Air America no longer exists.

I disagree about stupidity. It is VERY popular.

Originally Posted by Red1966

Gore sent 1500 "observers" to polling places in Florida. They demanded that absentee ballots from overseas military bases that were not post marked by the US post office with the correct date be discarded. The military has their own mail system and letters are not post marked with a date. Some election officials refused to do so, but many did, and thousands of legitimate ballots were thrown away. Those "observers" confiscated those ballots and they were never seen again. You can't demonstrate Bush stole the election because that's just another Democrat lie. Actually, until recently, ID was require to vote. Until recently, there was no absentee voting to speak of, so vote fraud was less of a problem. Demanding evidence of widespread vote fraud is misdirection and dishonest. Vote fraud doesn't have to be widespread to change the outcome of an election and you know that. Using UncleShitBritches tactics of misdirection is not legitimate. Do you really want to emulate that troll? Picking one organization and demanding I prove they committed a criminal offense is lame. Can you give us the name and address of every poor person who doesn't have ID?

"you can't demonstrate that Bush stole the election because that is just another Democrat lie" - there you go! You know little or nothing about their contention or the evidence they have but it must be a lie because it seems to conflict with your personal and collective narrative, so any evidence I have will be discounted by you without it even having been read. Ik told you that I could not prove one way or another but that I had evidence of malfesance but really, what is the point when you have made up your mind with some spoon fed ideology? Dems lie, Repubs don't is the ultimate end to any discussion we may have. I will take your word for the 1500 absentee ballots and military dating but I am curious as to how you can come up with numbers that the observers dealt with if those ballots were never seen again - or did the observers confess?

My demanding evidence of something that you folks alude to without such evidence is not dishonest, it is in fact quite natural. What you are saying is that we should enact laws that will inhibit legitimate voters from voting based upon nothing but conjecture. This it would appear is the dishonest action. I have posted links to valid studies, you have not. If even in your wildest fears, a significant percentage of people are commiting voter fraud, unless you can somehow prove that the number exceeds the number of legitimate voters denied, then you are the one being dishonest by knowing that you will prevent valid voters from casting votes above and beyond what your corrective measures would accomplish in the other direction.

In short, you contend that it is reasonable to keep 1000 voters from voting in order to prevent 1 case of voter fraud.

Now I've brought this comparison up before - are you unwilling to apply any corrective measures to the global warming issue until and unless difinitive proof is presented?

Originally Posted by JustAnotherHead

No, I'm saying stupidity is unpopular. Thus, Air America no longer exists.

Then, Fox is sucessful because they are not stupid? Agreed, no one ever said they were. That a message is popular has no bearing on the accuracy of that message.