There are numerous warnings of terrorist attacks every day. This one was just chatter picked up from more than one source, so it made a briefing. There was nothing specific about it... save that it involved the airlines. No date, no plan. The airlines were put on alert. Every jet we have cannot be scrambled in an instant to be anywhere they are needed an instant later. This was out of the blue.

BEN-VENISTE: ...At some point in the spring or summer of 2001, around the time of this heightened threat alert, you apparently began to use a private chartered jet plane, changing from your use of commercial aircraft on grounds, our staff is informed, of an FBI threat assessment. And, indeed, as you told us, on September 11th itself you were on a chartered jet at the time of the attack.

Can you supply the details, sir, regarding the threat which caused you to change from commercial to private leased jet?

ASHCROFT: ...Let me indicate to you that I never ceased to use commercial aircraft for my personal travel.

ASHCROFT: My wife traveled to Germany and back in August. My wife and I traveled to Washington, D.C., on the 3rd of September before the 17th -- before the 11th attack on commercial aircraft.

I have exclusively traveled on commercial aircraft for my personal travel; continued through the year 2000, through the entirety of the threat period to the nation.

The assessment made by the security team and the Department of Justice was made early in the year. It was not related to a terrorism threat as a threat to the nation. It was related to an assessment of the security for the attorney general, given his responsibilities and the job that he undertakes. And it related to the maintenance of arms and other things by individuals who travel with the attorney general. And it was their assessment that we would be best served to use government aircraft.

These were not private chartered jet aircraft. These were aircraft of the United States government. And it was on such an aircraft that I was on my way to an event in Milwaukee on the morning of September the 11th.
http://www.nj.com/war/ledger/index.s..._ashcroft.html

Because we weren't sure what was going on when the first one hit. Details were sketchy... a plane went cowboy and hit a building... it could be an attack...

He didn't. He is an idiot who misspeaks all the time.

What does Bill Clinton have to do with this?

Can you please provide some evidence of this?

Policy. That is what happens when you are investigated for mishandling sensitive data.

They had been through several dry runs, and like with any plan, if something goes wrong, you move to plan B.

They did. I personally know they did as my wife flew 4 of them to their Boston connection. However the lists are readily available if you care to look. What you are blindly copying and pasting concerns a document created by CNN which listed victims names... for obvious reasons the terrorists were excluded. This was not a document they received from the airline, but compiled from their own sources and was in no way complete nor official.


They didn't. Feel free to provide evidence that they were coerced. And if the terrorists WEREN'T who they were supposed to be... why force people to use their phones and betray that... and why did nobody betray such?

Well, to my knowledge the flight plan was never changed... it was simply not followed.

I would expect the police or firefighters who had set up a perimeter around the buildings. Lots of stuff was found on the ground. Shoes. An engine. Purses...

"I would expect the police or firefighters who had set up a perimeter around the buildings. Lots of stuff was found on the ground. Shoes. An engine. Purses..."

Yep all those items survived the amazingly hot inferno that was able to melt steel and cause buildings to fall. The fire was SOOOOO hot that it caused steel 40 floors below to weaken so much that when it finally "Pancaked" there was no resistance to the structure and it fell with no resistance. I can see an engine, since they have lots of titanium and would need the fires to be in excess of 5000F to burn. Purses? sure maybe from the building occupants.

Watch the video over and over, especially building 7, even the most basically educated person can easily discern that that building was purposely demo'd. If you can't then perhaps the education system failed you and indeed a child was left behind.

__________________
It is far easier to ignorantly control others than it is to wisely control yourself.

Are you aware that house fires burn hot enough to vaporize bone? Do you know that temperature? Without an accellerant.

We are dealing with two very significant forces. The impact of a relatively delicate but heavy object into a mammoth steel framed object, AND a massive and immediate structure fire that is burning instantly at a minimum of 1300 deg (can't fact check self now, but as mem serves, jet A burns around there.)

That structure fire across several floors immediately widespread and hot, burns and feeds on everything in this building so hot and intensely people choose to plummit to their deaths on the floors above it to escape the agony.

Its fcuking hot. You don't melt steel under those loads before it comes down on itself. It weakens and buckles long before reaching melting point. That doesn't happen till later. The impacts of the floors were colliding with measures so immense I have trouble not viewing them abstractly... And with each impact gaining more weight and momentum.

I am rambling,

2 forces:
Impact (which hurled people stuff throug the building VERY fast. Not much would make it through... The building steel framework would act like a net)

Instant hot structure fire which burned for hours.

I still don't see how -tha gubbament planting precision explosives finding the time to tear into the interior to expose the stresspoints in at least 5 places on 188 floors, then repairing that damage including paint, and nobody noticed- theory holds more water than what we all saw, where the crux, if not whole of your argument is "I wasn't expecting it to fall like that."

the first and only 3 times a steal structure has ever fallen because of heat was on 9/11. fell in their footprint at the rate of gravity.

i'm sorry. 19 people didn't change america by themselves. many live news stations heard "secondary explosions" before it collapsed. ppl were running out of the lobbies with cement dust all over them. wtc 7 fell and it didnt even get hit? i dont think so... there is more to the story than what we've been told.

__________________
"The Cruelest Trick Came From The Talibans, Who Allowed Plenty Of Drugs And Then Banned Music."
"Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning"- G.W.B.

Jesse Ventura's best interview ( IMO )

__________________
"The Cruelest Trick Came From The Talibans, Who Allowed Plenty Of Drugs And Then Banned Music."
"Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning"- G.W.B.

Great interview.

__________________
It is far easier to ignorantly control others than it is to wisely control yourself.

Well, 1 that is simply incorrect. Talk to a fireman. Steel structures melt almost every day in structure fires.

As to falling in its footprint... It is billions of pounds of concrete, thinner metals, etc ON GUIDED STEEL RAILS collapsing onto itself. There has never in the history of man been the destruction of anything so immense. Because you have a hard time wrapping your head around it, and the nature of tragedy on people look to something outlandish to make the more mundane reality less credible so that you can focus your fear on a familiar enemy. Your own government.

No, 19 didn't. They are leigon.

Then by all means... Show me a news station on the scene which corroborates that. Are you kidding me? News orgs EXIST to expose such a thing, it is how they justify their necessity to the country. Show me the pictures of people fleeing covered in dust (not soot) before the building fell.


I again ask you for a feasible logistical answer to controlled demo prep without ANY of the millions who walked through the doors noticing. Security, maintenance, nobody. Not a peep. It has been more than 7 years and not a whisper.

Riddle me that. I have never in my life asked such an easy debate. I am not asking for facts, evidence, or even logic.

Just a logistically feasible flight of fancy that could even threaten the hope of "possible".


It isn't. Go ahead. Try.

I bet Bush melted this steel too. Or was it the jews?

Car fire underneath.

Wow ... you are really stupid aren't you ... you'd rather disregard science and facts to blow some stupid bullshit out your ass ... well you won't get away with it on this thread I can promise you that. Let's break it down for the folks at home

Bullshit ... if any plane ... and I mean any plane deviates from it course jets are scramble in minutes ... never in the history before or after 911 have jet not been scramble when a plane leaves it's fight path. And this time 4 planes in secure air space? Please. What do you take us for? It's obvious by the other posters they don't buy your bullshit either.
Folks those jet were told to stand down ... and it wasn't by some so called terrorist in a cave ...
The 9/11 USAF Stand Down
The map below details the 9/11 planes' flightpaths and some of the military bases in those areas. The flights went through some of the most heavily militarized parts of the country.
So much for your "out of the blue" bullshit ...

You quote the testimony of Ashcroft in from of the phony 911 commission where people didn't have to testify under oath ... you expect us to believe what he said? Get real.


The Dog That Did Not Bark
Hijacked aircraft were wandering across the eastern half of the country. In theory no-one could have known how many planes had been hijacked. Two planes had crashed into the World Trade Center, Bush was at a publicized photo opportunity at Booker Elementary School, and there is an airport only four miles from this School.
Details were sketchy ... yeah ... right.


No he didn't misspeak ... he gave away the plan.

If he had the FBI close the files ... plenty ...

So far I have only been able to find the question ... when I have the time I'll investigate further ...if nothing can be found this question will have to be retracted.

So why wasn't he replaced? Why was the investigation stopped?

This is possible ... but the fact that some of the so called hijackers are still alive (see below) indicates this is not probable.

Oh the list are readily available ... yet you didn't "blindly" copy and paste something readily available to back your bullshit ... I wonder why? Put up or stfu on this one
And what about this?
At Least 7 of the 9/11
Hijackers are Still Alive

I have a problem with this question ... I would think people would want to call loved ones ... put the problem is it's impossible to use a cell phone So the big question is if they did make these phone calls how were they able to do so at 35000 feet?


Your knowledge? And what evidence do you have to back your knowledge? Of course the flight plan changed! When they deviated to those buildings! Get real


Shoes ... engine ... purses ... source?
What complete and total bullshit ... the average house fire is between 800 and 1200 degrees and it takes 1600 degrees to vaporize bone ...

Again you're blowing it out your ass ... those buildings according the Richard Gage and other architects like him state those building were design to withstand what happen. "delicate but heavy object" Bwaa ha ha ha ... bwaa ha ha ha .. The melting point for steel is 2700 degrees! So those fires weren't nearly hot enough ... so much for your bullshit.

Duh ... it doesn't take much temperature to make someone want to get away from it in a hurry ...

Total bullshit and defies the laws of physics and how those buildings were design.

No you are babbling and blowing it out your ass ...

Yeah ... right ...

Wrong again ... the building only burn from 8:45 to 10:28 according to the
"Official"911 Time linebefore it collapse in it's own footprint in less than 15 sec. which is impossible without help. Skyscrapers like them have burn longer in the pass that still stand and are used today ... go back to around page 17 ... I have a list of buildings that are still standing that burned way longer than those towers. How the hell do you explain that?

It's called construction work ... ever seen it? Workers come in do there thing under the guise of "construction work" ... plant the thermanite ... no one is the wiser ... "I wasn't expecting it to fall like that"? ... no ... the law of physics wasn't expecting it to fall like that.
You are pretty stupid with all the facts of the evidence presented to post such ridiculous and stupid comments.

Bwaa ha ha ... steel structures melt everyday? Bullshit! Steel structures are sprayed with fireproofing material! Wrong again ... I have video posted in this thread ... around page 19 or so ... of firemen stating that they heard explosions right before the building collapes ...

Once again total bullshit ... it has already been established that these building do not collapse in 15 sec with out help ... what part of that can't YOU rap you head ... if you have one ... around the obvious.

The only thing "outlandish" is your bullshit explainations.




Say who? The parts of the government that has been caught in lies time and time again?


9\11 WTC Demolition - Investigate

Come back when you are better educated so you don't look so stupid. Don't think for one mintue you can come to this thread blowing shit out your ass without being challeged ... and slapped down on many statement ... the neocons may be able to get away with the lies on corporate news ... but you won't be able to here ... that's for damn sure

__________________
Our Beautiful Ladies ...
Keep Them Safe Keep Them SECRET!
911 ... inside job!

You certainly are an easily frustrated little box person aren'tcha? I am debating the science, and your "facts". You are all red faced and spitting on your keyboard. Not necessary. I am new here, and don't want to start flaming yet... because I am an awful person and would like to stick around a while to give some understanding of how I work. Most of what you parrot is completely contrived. You state presumptions about circumstances you do not understand, and apply simple logic to the solution. Here... I will show you...


Here you are just incorrect. Unless you are in "restricted" air space, such as over the whitehouse. There is no such thing as "secure" air space, and none of the planes were in restricted airspace. The procedure, for the record, when a plane goes off course, we usually don't know about it, because radar is not tracking planes most of the time (being ground based 50s technology). It is called "uncontrolled space".

Typically if a jet goes off course and does not squalk within 5 minutes they pick up the "red phone". Already you are 20 minutes into just getting them into the air, much less approaching their target.

At 8:40 NORAD gets a call from the FAA about flight 11.

At 8:43 they get one about 175

At 8:45 11 slams tower 1.

At 8:46 we get birds in the air from Falmouth MA (350 mi)

At 9:03 175 hits tower 2.

At 9:22 NORAD gets the call on flight 77.



It generally takes about 15 minutes to scramble a jet from order to throttle.

It was unexpected, and our state of readiness was not as good as it could have been... but even if it was... it would have made no difference.



Seriously... how do you keep the foil from chaffing? Seems like the sound alone of it on my head would drive me nuts.

Who is it exactly that you claim to represent? Who exactly do you think I do?

You do realize that every base doesn't have jets and pilots waiting at the ready to jump into "pew pew pew got'em" battle right? Most highly militarized parts of the country? They went from boston to New York (215 mi) Falmouth is closer to boston, Andrews is closer to NY.


I expect you to disprove my evidence or STFU... frankly.

"Nuh uh" is not a acceptable defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowRebel The Dog That Did Not Bark

What is this meant to demonstrate exactly?


lol.

So the conspiracy widens... awesome.

[quote=GrowRebel;2581529]So far I have only been able to find the question ... when I have the time I'll investigate further ...if nothing can be found this question will have to be retracted.






So... it is your contention that our intelligence is too stupid to kill the people who are supposed to have died in this phony attack? Seriously? That makes sense to you? Kill 3000+ citizens and ruin our economy... but let the scapegoats run free in morocco or wherever... You really are awesome.

Ok... but this is the last time I do your research for you. Now quit regurgitating the lies you KNOW are false. It is intellectually dishonest. THIS is what a flight manifest looks like.



Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about. It is damned near impossible to stay connected for more than a couple of minutes because you pass the towers faster than the service can switch... but they work just fine until the drop. Also, the planes were nowhere near 35k feet. They were flying low in order to obfuscate radar.


A fligh plan is what pilots file with the FAA before takeoff. The flight plan was not changed mid flight, they simply deviated from the course. Attah didn't radio in a flight plan change.


You weren't watching the news live that day I guess.



http://books.google.com/books?id=Jdt...esult&resnum=3

Great... glad we are all on the same page now.

For I believe the 3rd time now... the steel does not have to melt, to weaken/bend. When you say steel melts at 2700, you are unaware that you are referring to the melting point of steel... the point when it becomes liquid.


Burned ignited by Jet A after suffering the impact of tons?


What law would that be? Just curious.




So you explain that bridge how? I mean... cmon... I gave you a well documented case. How much twisted melty steel do I have to find before you accept that you have no understanding whatsoever of physics, metalergy, or thermodynamics.


So... these buildings fall slower? Sweet. Got a link to a video of one?

oh... thats right... THEY ARE THE ONLY TWO IN HISTORY.


I am here to challenge the shit blowing... not the other way around.

Keep skipping the things you cant answer and move on to new ones...


btw

I am still waiting for a rational logistical solution. I notice you skipped that.


Ps... You can be civil. Just because I dont agree with you, and frankly think you are a loon, doesn't mean you have to be nasty.


Like I said. I will try nice as long as it works. Then I am going to hurt your feelings and you will be sad... so try being civil.