I do not like John McCain

closet.cult · #1 01-31-2008, 11:36 AM

I don't know why.

Maybe because he's adocating perpetual war. Maybe its because he wants America to occupy the Middle East for a hundred years. (Can you believe anyone would have the nerve to say something like that?! Like anyone in 1908 could possibly imagine what life is like today, and plan ahead for international policy of today!)

The mainstream media has regularly called him the "media darling". I am dumbfounded. There's nothing darling about this guy. He's monotone in voice, extreamist in policy and dull in appearance. He doesn't look or talk like a president. Unless you count the fact that he lies about the current state of the war. ("We're winning." "The surge is working.")

Can anyone point to anything about him presidential?

I know he was a tortured POW and is against torture. Good! But will he be closing the illegal prisons and detention centers for supposed terrorists? No. Will he end this for-profit war in the Middle East? No. And that big, sweet bear hug he gave President Bush in the photo-opt tells me much of what we American's need to know about him.

I don't like John McCain.

Dankdude · #2 01-31-2008, 11:44 AM

McCain is a putz, not only that but he is older than Reagan was when he ran for president. Me thinks he will be senile before he would finish a term in office.
I have opinions on the others but I'm writing this from an internet cafe' and time is money.

pandabear · #3 01-31-2008, 12:57 PM

do i see the libs trembling over the inevitability of BIG MAc

i think u may not like him cuz u probably havnt heard of him until recently, but if you have been paying attention for the past 20 years you wouldnt say such things about this man

also the fact that he spent 5 years in a POW camp doesnt mean its good cuz hes against torture. u are barely grasping the surface:

John Mcain is shot down over vietnam faithfully serving his country.

the enemy drags his lifeless body away and toss him a a dungen and leave him for dead

they later find out he is the son of a very promenemt admiral and put him in the hospital

they throw him back in the dungen with a full body cast where his fellow captive patriots care for him and slowly nurse him back to health

once healed they torture and rebreak his arms several times to the point where he cant even raise his hands up anymore till this day

after the toture they offer to release him due to his fathers high status in the US military.

John Mcain refuses to leave stating there are others who have been there many years longer than him.

they toss him in solitary confinement for 2 years for this

he survives this dark period and is released five years after his plane was shot down after the end of the war in Vietnam.

many things come to mind for me.

Honor
Courage
Selflessness
Compassion
Defy
fighter
not a quiter
strong
empathiser
walks the walk
talks the talk
patriot
strength
humility
hope
achievment
success
optimistic
doesnt make excuses

pandabear · #4 01-31-2008, 01:02 PM

Vietnam operations

John Sidney McCain IIIAugust 29, 1936 – presentAllegianceUnited States Navy (Naval aviation)Years of service1958–1981RankCaptainUnitUSS Forrestal (CV-59)Battles/warsVietnamAwardsSilver Star
Legion of Merit
Distinguished Flying Cross
Bronze Star
Purple HeartOther workNaval liaison to the United States Senate, United States Senator from Arizona, Presidential candidate
In Spring 1967 Forrestal was assigned to join Operation Rolling Thunder, the bombing campaign against North Vietnam as part of the Vietnam War.[14][26] The alpha strikes flown from Forrestal were against specific, pre-selected infrastructure targets such as arms depots, factories, and bridges;[27] they were quite dangerous due to the Soviet-designed and supplied anti-aircraft system fielded by the North Vietnamese Air Defense Force.[27] McCain's first five attack missions over North Vietnam went without incident,[16] and while still unconcerned with minor Navy regulations, McCain had by now garnered the reputation of a serious aviator.[19] But McCain and his fellow pilots were already frustrated by Rolling Thunder's infamous micromanagement from Washington;[27] he would later write that "The target list was so restricted that we had to go back and hit the same targets over and over again.... Most of our pilots flying the missions believed that our targets were virtually worthless. In all candor, we thought our civilian commanders were complete idiots who didn’t have the least notion of what it took to win the war."[26]
By now a Lieutenant Commander, McCain was again almost killed in action on July 29, 1967 while serving on the Forrestal, operating at Yankee Station in the Gulf of Tonkin. The crew was preparing to launch attacks when a Zuni rocket from an F-4 Phantom was accidentally fired across the carrier's deck. The rocket struck McCain's A-4E Skyhawk as the jet was preparing for launch.[28][29] The impact ruptured the Skyhawk's fuel tank, which ignited the fuel and knocked two bombs loose. McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out of the cockpit, working himself to the nose of the jet, and jumping off its refueling probe onto the burning deck of the aircraft carrier. Ninety seconds after the impact, one of the bombs exploded underneath his airplane. McCain was struck in the legs and chest by shrapnel. The ensuing fire killed 132 sailors, injured 62 others, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and took 24 hours to control.[30] A day or two after the Forrestal incident, McCain told New York Times reporter R. W. Apple, Jr. in Saigon that, "It's a difficult thing to say. But now that I've seen what the bombs and the napalm did to the people on our ship, I'm not so sure that I want to drop any more of that stuff on North Vietnam."[31] But a change of course was unlikely, as McCain said, "I always wanted to be in the Navy. I was born into it and I never really considered another profession. But I always had trouble with the regimentation."[31]
As Forrestal headed for repairs, McCain volunteered to join the VA-163 Saints on board the short-staffed USS Oriskany, which had earlier endured its own deck fire disaster[16] and whose squadrons had suffered heavy losses during Rolling Thunder, with one-third of their pilots killed or captured during 1967.[16] By late October 1967, McCain had flown a total of 22 bombing missions.[32]

pandabear · #5 01-31-2008, 01:04 PM

Prisoner of war

John McCain being pulled out of Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi and about to become a prisoner of war.[33] October 26, 1967.

On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying as part of a 20-plane attack against a thermal power plant in central Hanoi, a heavily defended target area that had previously been off-limits to U.S. raids.[34][35] McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile[35] while pulling up after dropping its bombs.[36] McCain fractured both arms and a leg in being hit and ejecting from his plane.[37] He nearly drowned after he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.[34] After he regained consciousness, a mob gathered around him, spat on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing.[38] Others crushed his shoulder with the butt of a rifle and bayoneted him in his left foot and abdominal area; he was then transported to Hanoi's main prison.[38] Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to put him in the hospital, deciding he would soon die anyway. They beat and interrogated him, but McCain only offered his name, rank, serial number, and date of birth.[38] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[38] and announce his capture. At this point, two days after McCain's plane went down, that event and his status as a POW made the front page of The

pandabear · #6 01-31-2008, 01:05 PM

New York Times.[31]
McCain spent six weeks in a hospital, receiving marginal care, was interviewed by a French television reporter whose report was carried on CBS, and was observed by a variety of North Vietnamese, including the famous General Vo Nguyen Giap. Many of the North Vietnamese observers assumed that he must be part of America's political-military-economic elite.[38] Now having lost 50 pounds, in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[34] McCain was sent to a prisoner-of-war camp in Hanoi in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week (one was Bud Day, a future Medal of Honor recipient); they nursed McCain and kept him alive.[39] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would be for two years.[38] In July 1968, McCain's father was named Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), stationed in Honolulu and commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater.[3] McCain was immediately offered a chance to return home early:[34] the North Vietnamese wanted a mercy-showing propaganda coup for the outside world, and a message that only privilege mattered that they could use against the other POWs.[38] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation due to the Code of Conduct of "first in, first out": he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[40] McCain's refusal to be released was even remarked upon by North Vietnamese officials to U.S. envoy Averell Harriman at the ongoing Paris Peace Talks.[34]
In August 1968, a program of vigorous torture methods began on McCain, using rope bindings into painful positions and beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[38][34] Teeth and bones were broken again as was McCain's spirit; the beginnings of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards.[34] After four days of this, McCain signed an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate",[34] although he used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal the statement was forced.[41] He would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[38] His injuries to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head.[42] His captors tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.[43] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions".[38] On one occasion when McCain was physically coerced to give the names of members of his squadron, he supplied them the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line.[41] On another occasion, a guard surreptitiously loosened McCain's painful rope bindings for a night; when he later saw McCain on Christmas Day, he stood next to McCain and silently drew a cross in the dirt with his foot[44] (decades later, McCain would relate this Good Samaritan story during his presidential campaigns, as a testament to faith and humanity[45][46]). McCain refused to meet with various anti-war peace groups coming to Hanoi, such as those led by David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, and Rennie Davis, not wanting to give either them or the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory based on his connection to his father.[38]
In October 1969, treatment of McCain and the other POWs suddenly improved, after a badly beaten and weakened POW who had been released that summer disclosed to the world press the conditions to which they were being subjected.[38] In December 1969, McCain was transferred to Hoa Loa Prison, which later became famous via its POW nickname of the "Hanoi Hilton".[38] McCain continued to refuse to see anti-war groups or journalists sympathetic to the North Vietnamese regime;[38] to one visitor who did speak with him, McCain later wrote, "I told him I had no remorse about what I did, and that I would do it over again if the same opportunity presented itself."[38] McCain and other prisoners were moved around to different camps at times, but conditions over the next several years were generally more tolerable than they had been before.[38]
Altogether McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. The Paris Peace Accords were signed on January 27, 1973, ending direct U.S. involvement in the war, but the Operation Homecoming arrangements for POWs took longer; McCain was finally released from captivity on March 15, 1973,[47] having been a POW for almost an extra five years due to his refusal to accept the out-of-sequence repatriation offer.[48]

pandabear · #7 01-31-2008, 01:05 PM

Return to United States

President Richard Nixon greets the released John McCain at a White House reception honoring returning POWs. May 24, 1973.

Upon his return to the United States, McCain was reunited with his wife Carol, who had suffered her own crippling, near-death ordeal during his captivity, due to an automobile accident in December 1969 that left her facing months of operations and physical therapy;[49] by the time he saw her again she was four inches shorter, on crutches, and substantially heavier.[50] As a returned POW, McCain became a celebrity of sorts: The New York Times ran a photo of him getting off the plane at Clark Air Base in the Philippines; he published a long cover story describing his ordeal and his support for the Nixon administration's handling of the war in U.S. News & World Report;[38] he participated in several parades and personal appearances; and a photograph of him on crutches shaking the hand of President Richard Nixon at a White House reception for returning POWs became iconic.[49]
McCain underwent treatment for his injuries, and attended the National War College in Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. during 1973–1974.[49][17] Few thought McCain could fly again, but he was determined to try, and engaged in nine months of grueling, painful physical therapy, especially to get his knees to bend again.[50] By late 1974 McCain had recuperated just enough to pass his flight physical[50] and have his flight status reinstated,[49] and he became Executive Officer and then Commanding Officer of the VA-174 Hellrazors, the East Coast A-7 Corsair II Navy training squadron stationed at Naval Air Station Cecil Field outside Jacksonville in Florida and the largest attack squadron in the Navy.[49][17][51] McCain's leadership abilities were credited with turning around a mediocre unit, improving its aircraft readiness and pilot safety metrics and winning the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation,[50] and while some senior officers resented McCain's presence as favoritism due to his father, junior officers rallied to him and helped him qualify for A-7 carrier landings.[50]
During the time in Jacksonville, the McCains' marriage began to falter.[52] McCain had extramarital affairs,[52] and he would later say, "My marriage's collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine."[52] His wife Carol would later echo those sentiments, saying "I attribute [the breakup of our marriage] more to John turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again than I do to anything else."[52]

pandabear · #8 01-31-2008, 01:07 PM

Senate liaison and second marriage

Interview with McCain on April 24, 1974, after his return home.

In 1976, McCain briefly thought of running for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida.[53] Instead, based upon the recommendation of Admiral James L. Holloway III,[49] in 1977 McCain became the Navy's liaison to the U.S. Senate.[53] Returning to the Washington, D.C. area, McCain soon became the leader of the Russell Senate Office Building liaison operation, and would later say it represented "[my] real entry into the world of politics and the beginning of my second career as a public servant."[49] McCain was influenced by senators of both parties, and especially by a strong bond with Republican Senator John Tower of Texas, ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.[49] McCain was still living with his wife, although they had had one separation during this time.[50]
In 1979, while attending a military reception in Hawaii, McCain met and fell in love with Cindy Lou Hensley, 17 years his junior, a teacher from Phoenix, Arizona who was the daughter of James Willis Hensley, a wealthy Anheuser-Busch distributor and wife Marguerite Smith.[52] By now it was clear that McCain's naval career was stalled; he would never be promoted to admiral as his grandfather and father had been.[50] McCain filed for and obtained an uncontested divorce from his wife Carol in Florida on April 2, 1980;[20] he gave her a generous settlement, including houses in Virginia and Florida and financial support for her ongoing medical treatments, and they would remain on good terms.[52] McCain and Hensley were married on May 17, 1980 [14] in Phoenix, Arizona, with Senators William Cohen and Gary Hart as best man and groomsman.[52] McCain's children felt upset with him and did not attend the wedding,[50] but after several years they reconciled with him and Cindy.[50][22]
McCain retired from the Navy in 1981 as a Captain.[12] During his military career, he received a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, the Legion of Merit, the Purple Heart, and a Distinguished Flying Cross.[54]

Political career

pandabear · #9 01-31-2008, 01:09 PM

U.S. Congressman and more children

Living in Phoenix, McCain went to work for his new father-in-law Jim Hensley's large Anheuser-Busch beer distributorship as Vice President of Public Relations,[52] where he gained political support among the local business community,[53] meeting powerful figures such as banker Charles Keating, Jr., real estate developer Fife Symington III,[52] and newspaper publisher Darrow "Duke" Tully,[53] all the while looking for an electoral opportunity.[52] When John Jacob Rhodes, Jr., the longtime Republican congressman from Arizona's 1st congressional district, announced his retirement, McCain ran for the seat as a Republican in 1982.[55] McCain faced two experienced state legislators in the Republican nomination process, and as a newcomer to the state was hit with repeated charges of being a carpetbagger.[52] Finally at a candidates forum he gave a famous refutation to a voter making the charge:

Listen, pal. I spent 22 years in the Navy. My grandfather was in the Navy. We in the military service tend to move a lot. We have to live in all parts of the country, all parts of the world. I wish I could have had the luxury, like you, of growing up and living and spending my entire life in a nice place like the first district of Arizona, but I was doing other things. As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi.[52]

A Phoenix Gazette columnist would later label this "the most devastating response to a potentially troublesome political issue I've ever heard."[52] With the assistance of some local political endorsements and his Washington connections, as well as effective television advertising, partly financed by $167,000 that his wife lent to his campaign (which helped him outspend his opponents),[53] and with support of Tully's