Its in the history books, Med. Oh, sorry ... it WAS in the history books, but probably not in the revised history books of today. After all, how are we gonna wipe those collective minds clean unless we teach the horrors about what all those dead white men did to plunder the country?


It was in Jamestown, Med. All the citzens worked for the collective. All farm production was put into a colllective, and each citizen took out what he/she needed for personal use and survival. So, the theory was: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." It didn't work in Jamestown back in the 1600s, it didn't work after Marx used that quote in the Communist Manifesto, its not working in Cuba, its not working in North Korea and it didn't work in China either. Hundreds of millions of misled people have discovered the result of communism since Jamestown ... and the results, everytime, was starvation under the iron fist of a totalitarian government.

Vi

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Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.

Here is some info.......



When US tried Communism

The Himalayan Times, 24 Jan 2005
Rakesh Wadhwa

I write this especially for our Maoist brothers. While the US is commonly vilified as the bastion of capitalism, it is little known that the US too has tried communism. It was only when communism failed that property rights and capitalism took hold.

Let us go back into history and see what lessons America learned from its relatively short dalliance with Maoism much before the ‘great leader' himself was born.

The year was 1607. The first 104 settlers had arrived from Europe in Jamestown in the Virginia Tidewater region of the US in May. They found soil which was fertile beyond what they had seen in the lands which they had left. Fruits were abundant. Wild game such as deer and turkey were everywhere. There was no shortage of fish and other seafood. And yet within six months 66 of the original Jamestown, Virginia settlers had died. Only 38 survived.

Another 500 settlers were again sent to settle in Virginia in 1609 and within six months 440 of these too died by starvation and disease. This was called ‘starving time' and one eyewitness described it in English of those times, ‘So great was our famine, that a Savage we slew and buried, the poorer sorte took him up againe and eat him; and so did divers one another boyled and stewed with roots and herbs.'

How could this be? How could there be such death and starvation amidst so much plenty of meat, fruits, and fish. The fault as the witness said lay not in the ‘barrenness and defect of the Countrie' but in the ‘want of providence, industry and government'.

What caused this lack of ‘industrie'? Were the Virginian settlers lazy and indolent? It could not be. People who were sent there were the chosen ones – the very best of men.

The problem was that all the men who were sent were bonded labourers. They had no stake in what they produced. They were bound by contract to put all they produced into a common pool to be used to support their colony as a whole. This was communism in its purest form. Everyone was supposed to work according to ability and take according to need.

As so frequently happens with present day government policies, the results were the opposite of what was intended. Since hard work was not personally beneficial for the settlers they responded by stopping work.

Phillip A. Bruce, a late 19th century US historian, wrote of the Jamestown immigrants, “The settlers did not have even a modified interest in the soil … . Everything produced by them went into the store, in which they had no proprietorship.” The result as Bruce wrote would be what anyone who has any knowledge of human nature would expect, men, even the most energetic, refused to work.

This is what happened in Mao's China and in Soviet Russia on a grand scale. In America a few hundred deaths stopped the communist experiment, in China and Russia, millions had to die before these nations abandoned the principles of Marx, Lenin, and Mao.

Jamestown changed course just two years later in 1611 with arrival of the ‘high marshall' Sir Thomas Dale from the UK. He understood the problem, freed the settlers by abrogating communal ownership. Each man received three acres of land and, other than a lump sum tax of 2 ½ barrels of corn, did not have to contribute anything to the common pool. The colony immediately began to prosper. It prospered because each individual directly benefited by his labour and knew that he would also bear the full consequences of any reduction in output. Private ownership and capitalism worked.

Communism doesn't work because it destroys the reward and work nexus. Communism doesn't work because the absence of property rights heralds the end of all incentive to produce. Communism doesn't work because humans do no wish to sacrifice themselves to the common good.

I do not know or care about the political philosophy of the Maoists. I would, though, like to know what their economic policies are going to be. Do they want to take back Nepal to what America experimented with almost 400 years ago? Nepal lags behind the US in economic development, but is it to be put back by four centuries?.
::Welcome to CCS::

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If you wind up with a boring, miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest or some guy on TV telling you how to do your shit, then YOU DESERVE IT.
~ Frank Zappa ~

Liberty means responsibility, that is why most men dread it.
~George Bernard Shaw~

All I can say on the subject is the only place pure communism has ever worked is in China and only after they mixed in just enough capitalism to boost the economy. Now they are the fastest growing economic force on earth... The problem with an economy growing so fast is that sooner or later the bubble will burst and the economy will spiral into recession.

Now I'll go back to watching this thread for the entertainment value.

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The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. United State Constitution, Art. I Sec. 9 Par. 2

"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism" -- Howard Zinn

Well, "pure" communism doesn't include any capitalism. Being a little capitalistic is kinda like being a little bit pregnant.

Recessions are part of the natural business cycle. Where countries get into problems is when the government tries to "fix" it. We had that experience in spades back in the late 1920s.

Vi

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Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.

its not working in Cuba, That may be due to a long enforced trade embargo with Cuba. Also I've seen programs done by cubans that pretty much extoll the virtues of communism. There is like 0% illiteracy in Cuba. Their Medical program is on par with the finest in the world, they have more doctors per capita than any 1st world country. The average school achievement level for college age studernts far exceeds the US, and the dropout rate hardly exists at all! If the US would quit beating them up and open their tourism up, Cuba would be a very nice place to live!

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Life is good, the water is sweet. The ground keeps moving beneath my feet.

I will agree with you on those points Med, what you are saying about Cuba is true. And I will go even farther, a 46 year embargo is a bit ridiculous.

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The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. United State Constitution, Art. I Sec. 9 Par. 2

"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism" -- Howard Zinn

so if cuba aint doin too bad, dispite us having a trade imbargo on them, then that shows, to me, that as long as you have enough natural resources to support your people, communism is the answer. if we control our population and take care of the environment (more specifically, stop nuclear pollution and start using recycled shit) this country should easily be able to support us all.

how much is the u.s. in debt?

it's only America that won't trade with Cuba. Cuba has a great tourist sector but it still isn't enough to prop up a way of government that just goes against human nature.

As for comments about their level of education. Sure, they'll send people to medical school. But the doctors don't get paid crap so they all end up taking jobs running small shops selling to the tourists. So you have to find better metrics(ways to measure quality of life.) Just because they may have a ton of doctors doesn't mean that they actually help increase quality or length of life.

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------------------------------------------------------ Growing since 2006.
http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal...ed=1#post28734

ey penguin, whats ur definition of human nature?

Raul Castro is trying to make amends with the United States since his brother is out of the way... It looks like Communism in Cuba will fall with in the next Ten years....

preoQpydDlusion, Read History, Communism doesn't work. It sounds good on paper having read the communist manifesto, but the Human equation always screws it up. They get power mad (just like the present US administration) and see themselves as kings. (just like the current US administration.)

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The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. United State Constitution, Art. I Sec. 9 Par. 2

"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism" -- Howard Zinn