Income tax and freedom! - Page 3

Dankdude · #21 01-08-2007, 07:08 PM

Now a little more info for you in the recent past and today.

The federal tax system is the nation's biggest welfare system. In 1995, special tax breaks cost $456 billion. Most of these tax breaks went to rich individuals and corporations. Corporations got another $86 billion in direct subsidies. By contrast, welfare for poor people (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) cost the federal government $22 billion. Yet, to hear the politicians talk, social welfare programs are breaking the federal budget.

Since 1960, the tax structure has become less progressive. In the early 1960s, there were the first of many capital gains tax cuts. Then corporate income tax rates were cut. Then tax rates on personal income taxes for the highest tax brackets were cut. Then regressive payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare were raised dramatically in the early 1980s, while tax rates for the rich were cut once again. Today, the federal tax structure is less progressive than it has ever been. We favor restructuring the federal tax structure so that it is progressive, with higher rates for high-income people than for low income people.

Another serious problem with the existing tax structure is tax rate competition among states and localities. It has a virtual civil war between states and localities offering tax breaks, subsidies, and other government favors to lure corporate investment into their jurisdictions. Instead of corporations competing for customers, we have states and cities competing for corporations. In addition, unfunded federal spending mandates force local governments to raise regressive property and sales taxes, further shifting the costs of government on to middle and low income people. To remedy these problems, we favor centralized collection of most taxes by the federal government, combined with revenue sharing with Community Assemblies, municipalities, counties, and states where decentralized administration of government services is rendered more democratic and accountable.

In case you haven't noticed, since 1960 gross domestic product has fallen off more and more. And yet they started cutting tax for Corporations and the Rich. I wonder why that is Vi? Hmmmmm?

bleorg · #22 01-08-2007, 07:14 PM

Yeah Vi, it sure was an experience, especially for a guy in his early twenties. The best part I forgot to mention, when we first started to deliberate, we held a quick vote and only 2 of us voted guilty. It took most of the day to make everyone realize that the "reasonable doubt" a lot of them had was just a smokescrean thrown up by a decent defense lawyer. You could see in the faces of the witnesses(Doctors and Nurses), that something really bad had definitely taken place. Like I said, afterwards we all learned that this guy was a lot worse than we were allowed to hear, but he was only on trial for this one incident.

I have to agree with you on what to do if asked for your views on marijuana. How can a guy get a fair trial if the whole jury is just people who think pot smokers should be in jail?

Dankdude · #23 01-08-2007, 07:21 PM

One More factoid Vi,

During World War I rates rose in an almost vertical ascent to 77 percent. During the prosperous 1920s the tax structure was scaled down, only to be reversed by huge Treasury deficits during the depression years. With the entry of the United States into World War II, taxation once again became directly connected with national survival and the top rate reached 91 percent. In 1943 Congress imposed a withholding system on income tax payers, making collections easier and doubling the government's yield in the first year, an important revenue boost during the war. Although Roosevelt vetoed the withholding bill as neglectful of the welfare of the low- and medium-income groups, the bill became law without his signature. At the same time, however, exemptions were lowered and the base broadened so that what had been a class tax became a mass tax. This can be seen in the numbers of people required to pay in two significant years: in 1939, 4 million people and in 1945, 42.7 million. Today the reach of the tax is shown in figures for 1989 indicating that the irs processed 107.7 million individual returns. This number will rise, the agency estimates, to 118.3 million in 1995. By a wide margin, the income tax is the largest single source of federal receipts.

medicineman · #24 01-08-2007, 07:24 PM

Velly interesting, except I'm too dense to make head nor tails out of it. All I know is the plutocrats want to eliminate it and with the fed running the country, I almost have to agree with them. We need some kind of balance taxation, I'd really like to kick the Bankers out of the equation. I realize it aint that simple, Simon, but there needs to be a major overhaul of our monetary system whereby we don't spend every dime of our tax money on interest for rich bankers! Some Brainiac could figure it out, Hell I could even come up with a simple plan.

Dankdude · #25 01-08-2007, 07:28 PM

My Point is that lowering taxes only boost the economy short term, but long term tax cuts drive an economy downward.

medicineman · #26 01-09-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankdude

My Point is that lowering taxes only boost the economy short term, but long term tax cuts drive an economy downward.

So If I agree with this, are you responding to Vis assertion that the tax cuts have been responsible for the "booming Economy". It's has only boomed for the richest 10%. If the Income tax could be taken away from the FED and the FED eliminated, I think it would be a workable progressive tax. But with the FED involved in stealing the money, Then we must eliminate it and start over. Fuck those Bankers, let them go Bankrupt. We also need to nationalize the debt owed to other countries like China that holds Billions in US treasury bonds, tell them to go after the rotten bankers for their debt. I realize this is probably not workable, But some changes need to be made to wrest control of our monetary system from rich Bankers!

Dankdude · #27 01-09-2007, 09:42 AM

Yes Tax cuts boost the economy short term, but in the long term it drags down an economy.

medicineman · #28 01-09-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dankdude

Yes Tax cuts boost the economy short term, but in the long term it drags down an economy.

What about my assertion to do away with the fed, do you agree or disagree?

Chronic_Productionz · #29 01-09-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicineman

Vi, you might find this interesting, after watching this I can see why you are so against the Income tax. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...dom+to+fascism I agree with the arguements presented here, I just feel there needs to be a citizen funded pool of money to take care of the less fortunate. I'm not in favor of bankers running the country and of the citizens having to pay the bankers interest on the borrowing of the federal government. That is highly oportunistic on the few Bankers whom profit from this arangement. I don't know how to stop or revamp this system but agree that it is out of control. If this makes you feel vindicated, then so be it. I guess I didn't fully understand the scope of the Income tax. Like I said, something needs to replace it for the welfare of the society, but the Bankers need to be shut out of the equation! This is scary stuff!

I thank you for the link to that video. I am currently about to email this video to a large group of News Stations Newspapers and whatever other media I can get to listen to me... We all need to realize if we don't pay income taxes because it's not a law we'd have MORE money in our pockets so all of our nations families would not struggle as much as they do.. I'm almost 20 years old I will be in about a week and a half and if I didn't pay income taxes I would already be living in a nice house have a better car and NOT be in 3,000 dollars worth of debt through credit cards Cell phone Bills and everything else... We all as americans need to come together and bring the IRS and Federal Income taxation DOWN so we can live better, healthier more fullfilling lives!

Dankdude · #30 01-09-2007, 11:08 AM

I think that the federal reserve is a drain on the tax payer.