Bill Collectors

Nice! Now if i lived in the US this could actually help me.. i need to get some Belgian advise over this.. i know most contracts are not a legal form of consideration and can thus be chancelled.. but i dont know the belgian state of laws regarding this issue..

normally this isn't how it goes.

normally you have a debt and you pay it.

failure to re-pay debt usually involves ruining of credit, loss of collateral, and sometimes even jail-time.

I REPEAT: do not believe that writing a letter will get you out of debt, without consequence. most of the time you will ruin your credit, loose the collateral, both, be sued, or maybe even go to jail, all of the above......

your friend might have gone through the bankrupcy court without your knowledge. she needs not your consent, nor your knowledge of the fact.

i highly doubt she had a 5,000k note she just didn't pay without consequence.

Originally Posted by redivider

normally this isn't how it goes.

normally you have a debt and you pay it.

failure to re-pay debt usually involves ruining of credit, loss of collateral, and sometimes even jail-time.

I REPEAT: do not believe that writing a letter will get you out of debt, without consequence. most of the time you will ruin your credit, loose the collateral, both, be sued, or maybe even go to jail, all of the above......

your friend might have gone through the bankrupcy court without your knowledge. she needs not your consent, nor your knowledge of the fact.

i highly doubt she had a 5,000k note she just didn't pay without consequence.

So then i have some interesting facts for you..

In 1969, there was a Minnesota court case involving a man named Jerome Daly,
who was challenging the foreclosure of his home by the bank,
which provided the loan to purchase it.

His argument was that the mortgage contract required both parties,
being he and the bank, each put up a legitimate form of property for the exchange.
In legal language, this is called consideration.
Mr. Daly explained that the money was, in fact, not the property of the bank.
For it was created out of nothing, What they do (the banks), when they make loans,
is to accept promissory notes, in exchange for credits. Reserves are unchanged by the loan transactions.
But, deposit credits constitute new additions to the total deposits of the banking system.
In other words, the money doesn't come out of their existing assets.
The bank is simply inventing it, putting up nothing of it's own, except for a theoretical liability, on paper.
As the court case progressed, the bank's president, Mr. Morgan, took the stand.
And in the judge's personal memorandum, he recalled that the Plaintiff, bank's president,
admitted that, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank did create the money and credits
upon its books by book-keeping entry. The money and credit first came into existence
when they created it.

Mr. Morgan admitted that no United States Law or Statute existed
which gave him the right to do this.
A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note.
The Jury found that there was no lawful consideration and I agree.
He also poetically added:
Only God can create something of value, out of nothing.
And, upon this revelation, the court rejected the bank's claim for foreclosure and Daly kept his home.

The implications of this court decision are immense. For every time you borrow money from a bank,
whether it is a mortgage loan or a credit card charge, the money given to you is not only counterfeit,
it is a illegitimate form of consideration. And hence, voids the contract to repay.
For the bank never had the money as property to begin with.
Unfortunately, such legal realizations are suppressed and ignored.

Unfortunately, I think the next step (after collection attempts fail) is to sue. Sometimes, they don't bother with suing, and just write it off as a loss though. If they do sue, she'll have to prove what was written in that letter. I assume she won't be able to. If she loses the case (or doesn't show up [same thing]) they'll garnish wages, take the money in her bank account, and/or put a lien on her house (if she owns).

Originally Posted by redivider

normally this isn't how it goes.

normally you have a debt and you pay it.

failure to re-pay debt usually involves ruining of credit, loss of collateral, and sometimes even jail-time.

I REPEAT: do not believe that writing a letter will get you out of debt, without consequence. most of the time you will ruin your credit, loose the collateral, both, be sued, or maybe even go to jail, all of the above......

your friend might have gone through the bankrupcy court without your knowledge. she needs not your consent, nor your knowledge of the fact.

i highly doubt she had a 5,000k note she just didn't pay without consequence.

You can't go to prison for not paying a debt, LOL. There is no debtors prison anymore. I think you are probably misinformed about that. Its not like writing bad checks .

I can say for a 100 % certain fact that the debt is gone, no bankruptcy court, no credit report bullshit nothing. People do not go to bankruptcy proceedings for a small amount like $5k, that's ridiculous. It wasn't a loan she took out or anything.

Have you ever tried writing a creditor a letter? You have nothing to lose and you are well within your rights to do it.

Originally Posted by WhateverOne

So then i have some interesting facts for you..

In 1969, there was a Minnesota court case involving a man named Jerome Daly,
who was challenging the foreclosure of his home by the bank,
which provided the loan to purchase it.

His argument was that the mortgage contract required both parties,
being he and the bank, each put up a legitimate form of property for the exchange.
In legal language, this is called consideration.
Mr. Daly explained that the money was, in fact, not the property of the bank.
For it was created out of nothing, What they do (the banks), when they make loans,
is to accept promissory notes, in exchange for credits. Reserves are unchanged by the loan transactions.
But, deposit credits constitute new additions to the total deposits of the banking system.
In other words, the money doesn't come out of their existing assets.
The bank is simply inventing it, putting up nothing of it's own, except for a theoretical liability, on paper.
As the court case progressed, the bank's president, Mr. Morgan, took the stand.
And in the judge's personal memorandum, he recalled that the Plaintiff, bank's president,
admitted that, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank did create the money and credits
upon its books by book-keeping entry. The money and credit first came into existence
when they created it.

Mr. Morgan admitted that no United States Law or Statute existed
which gave him the right to do this.
A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note.
The Jury found that there was no lawful consideration and I agree.
He also poetically added:
Only God can create something of value, out of nothing.
And, upon this revelation, the court rejected the bank's claim for foreclosure and Daly kept his home.

The implications of this court decision are immense. For every time you borrow money from a bank,
whether it is a mortgage loan or a credit card charge, the money given to you is not only counterfeit,
it is a illegitimate form of consideration. And hence, voids the contract to repay.
For the bank never had the money as property to begin with.
Unfortunately, such legal realizations are suppressed and ignored.

wait 'til you grow up, and you have a debt you owe, and see how it goes. after this desicion was handed out, it was overturned, and more than 10 cases dealing with the matter have all handed down the exact opposite verdict.

that makes it 10+ to 1. and the 10 cases HAVE set precedent.

that was a single case, in 1969. afterwards, the verdict was nullified, which makes it useless as precedent.

and from the wikipedia page where you got that chain e-mail:

The guy who didn't want to pay his bills, also refused to pay his taxes. so you can see a pattern here.... his unlawful behavior led him to be disbarred at some point.

you should really find better role models.

No Drama is 100% correct, believe it or not. And no, you can't go to prison for not paying a debt.

I do take difference with one statement Nodrama made however, your debt doesn't "go away". You are simply placing the burden of proof on the creditor that in good faith, provided the credit line to begin with. Most will NOT have a signed contract which IS required in order to sue for collection. The law firm has what are called boilerplate packages, which are a standard copy of the terms and conditions, a blank credit card application and a final statement before the debt was sold off.

Nodrama's method requires the new holder of the legitimate debt to jump through hoops to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the debt is valid. Most collectors go away after awhile, so using this method is for desperate cases that are certain the debt is enough to end up in court. In that case, use it as a last resort. The best time is when the debt is bought by another company for pennies on the dollar and they send you first notice. In that case, it is time to send a demand of proof and a cease and desist letter. In most cases, the chain of evidence is too long and in many different locations and can't be recovered.

Originally Posted by Leothwyn

Unfortunately, I think the next step (after collection attempts fail) is to sue. Sometimes, they don't bother with suing, and just write it off as a loss though. If they do sue, she'll have to prove what was written in that letter. I assume she won't be able to. If she loses the case (or doesn't show up [same thing]) they'll garnish wages, take the money in her bank account, and/or put a lien on her house (if she owns).

A bill collector cannot sue, check your laws. A bill collector is a 3rd party and has no legal standing.