Parents must choose vaccines or jail - Page 3

medicineman · #21 11-16-2007, 10:24 AM

But, most generally, Orwellian State = Patriot Act, phone-tapping, waterboarding, and stealing my tax money to kill Iraqis. That's evil stuff. The people giving these vaccines are probably all good people, it's just the information--how safe they are--thats disagreed upon.

Oddly enough, I agree completely. The vaccinations need to be certified safe by a third party.

AmythePothead · #22 11-16-2007, 10:35 AM

Mercury is not in most vaccines. It was stopped being put in them awhile ago.
This is a really hot topic for me.
i dont vax my kids. I have my reasons for not wanting to inject a bunch of poison and chemicals into their bodies...that is my choice as a parent. There are ways around getting in trouble like in that video. You fill out an exemption form, and they cant do anything else about it. Vaccines for chicken pox protect from ONE strain of CP. there are thousands. Mercury was removed from the shots, because it was suspected of giving kids autism (among other reasons) Vaccines contain formaldahyde...do you want that in YOUR body?? Regardless of whether you believe in vaccinations or not, it should still be MY choice as a mom. What happens if they force you to vax, and your kid dies from the vaccine? (which does happen more than you realize) then what, they say OOPS????

Chrisuperfly · #23 11-16-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmythePothead

Mercury is not in most vaccines. It was stopped being put in them awhile ago.
This is a really hot topic for me.
i dont vax my kids. I have my reasons for not wanting to inject a bunch of poison and chemicals into their bodies...that is my choice as a parent. There are ways around getting in trouble like in that video. You fill out an exemption form, and they cant do anything else about it. Vaccines for chicken pox protect from ONE strain of CP. there are thousands. Mercury was removed from the shots, because it was suspected of giving kids autism (among other reasons) Vaccines contain formaldahyde...do you want that in YOUR body?? Regardless of whether you believe in vaccinations or not, it should still be MY choice as a mom. What happens if they force you to vax, and your kid dies from the vaccine? (which does happen more than you realize) then what, they say OOPS????

Agree, I think the best vaccination is taking the damn video games away and throwing the kid outside into the fresh air, imho.

medicineman · #24 11-16-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisuperfly

Agree, I think the best vaccination is taking the damn video games away and throwing the kid outside into the fresh air, imho.

Not a lot of fresh air in the inner cities.

7xstall · #25 11-16-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenAss

Hey--I'm going to give up a little to my ignorance on just what you were talking about. I don't know the issue, and if there is significant proof to give parents objections merit, I fully support them, and an investigation should be launched.

I'm from Wisconsin. Rural Wisconsin. Some of my neighbors are Amish, religious whack jobs that won't drive cars, but will ride in them, and BS like that. A few years ago, an Amish girl was real sick. She needed some intense medicine, but the Amish don't believe in medicine/technology. She would have died, but the State jumped in and said, "Fuck you, you are worthless parents." And she lived. And thank no-God for the State willing to tell parents where to go when they fail their children.

I assumed it was more like that, and in that respect made a mistake. But the point is, children are not property, of anyone. Parents should have full authority, right up to the point where the child suffers harm because of it.

You attacked my positions, but not specifically. So I cannot respond to anything else.

But, most generally, Orwellian State = Patriot Act, phone-tapping, waterboarding, and stealing my tax money to kill Iraqis. That's evil stuff. The people giving these vaccines are probably all good people, it's just the information--how safe they are--thats disagreed upon.

again, there is never an excuse for the state to intervene on behalf of children unless the parents are intentionally and purposefully harming their children.

you argue that the parents were somehow neglectful because they shun modern medicine. who are you to demand that they discard their faith in the Sovereign Creator of the universe in favor of modern medicine? what gives your faith in medicine any level of superiority to faith in anything else that one might have, especially faith in the God that made everything with only His thoughts? my belief is that He uses medicine so i wouldn't avoid treatment but it is their natural right to do so as an affirmation of THEIR faith.

you said the girl "would have died" as thought it is fact but it is not fact, it is at best speculation. you don't know. and even if she had died that would not have been a failure of the parents at all. catastrophic illness kills people every day. is that your fault or my fault? people live and people die. they have the absolute right to trust in God for all things and for the state to play god is wrong. you can look down and make fun all you want but it doesn't change the reality that children belong to their parents. not like an external property but rather as an extension of themselves.

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medicineman · #26 11-16-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7xstall

again, there is never an excuse for the state to intervene on behalf of children unless the parents are intentionally and purposefully harming their children.

you argue that the parents were somehow neglectful because they shun modern medicine. who are you to demand that they discard their faith in the Sovereign Creator of the universe in favor of modern medicine? what gives your faith in medicine any level of superiority to faith in anything else that one might have, especially faith in the God that made everything with only His thoughts? my belief is that He uses medicine so i wouldn't avoid treatment but it is their natural right to do so as an affirmation of THEIR faith.

you said the girl "would have died" as thought it is fact but it is not fact, it is at best speculation. you don't know. and even if she had died that would not have been a failure of the parents at all. catastrophic illness kills people every day. is that your fault or my fault? people live and people die. they have the absolute right to trust in God for all things and for the state to play god is wrong. you can look down and make fun all you want but it doesn't change the reality that children belong to their parents. not like an external property but rather as an extension of themselves.

.

Look, If God is truly interested in our wellbeing, don't you think he would approve of saving someones life through medical procedures, after all, didn't he give man free will to learn how to help people in need, (Doctors)? So if God so truly loves us, wouldn't he rather see your child survive to lessen the hurt to you. Saying that it is Gods will to let your child die when a medical procedure would save it is absolutely idiotic, and any parent that would do that, needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and beaten to within an inch of their lives, maybe then some common sense (sans religious idiocy) could filter through. Just MHO.

7xstall · #27 11-16-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmythePothead

Mercury is not in most vaccines. It was stopped being put in them awhile ago.

that's completely incorrect. you have to specifically ask for the non-Thimerosal and non-(m)ethyl-Hg versions that are in wide use from old stock. also, testing does find Hg in many currently produced vaccines.

DadTalk: Merck Knew Mercury Levels High in Vaccinations, Memo Says

NIAID-Supported Studies on Mercury, Thimerosal, and Vaccine Safety, NIAID Fact Sheet

http://www.dentalmercury.com/pdf/pap...g%20Review.pdf

A Chemist's Laboratory Notebook: Flu Vaccine and Thiomersal...

http://www.mercola.com/2002/mar/30/mercury_vaccine.htm

Vaccination Liberation Information

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmythePothead

There are ways around getting in trouble like in that video. You fill out an exemption form, and they cant do anything else about it. Vaccines for chicken pox protect from ONE strain of CP. there are thousands. Mercury was removed from the shots, because it was suspected of giving kids autism (among other reasons) Vaccines contain formaldahyde...do you want that in YOUR body?? Regardless of whether you believe in vaccinations or not, it should still be MY choice as a mom. What happens if they force you to vax, and your kid dies from the vaccine? (which does happen more than you realize) then what, they say OOPS????

very true, there are quite a few complications from vaccinations every year.

the point is, since when do Americans have to fill out paperwork to justify their actions? since when are citizens on trial, by default, whenever they don't want to comply with non-Constitutional edicts? there is absolutely no room in a free society for forced medical treatment of any kind.

(btw, just a nit pick thing, there are only two strains of chickenpox

)

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medicineman · #28 11-16-2007, 12:14 PM

btw, just a nit pick thing, there are only two strains of chickenpox

)

What are they? Bad and worse.

7xstall · #29 11-16-2007, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicineman

Look, If God is truly interested in our wellbeing, don't you think he would approve of saving someones life through medical procedures, after all, didn't he give man free will to learn how to help people in need, (Doctors)? So if God so truly loves us, wouldn't he rather see your child survive to lessen the hurt to you. Saying that it is Gods will to let your child die when a medical procedure would save it is absolutely idiotic, and any parent that would do that, needs to be taken out behind the woodshed and beaten to within an inch of their lives, maybe then some common sense (sans religious idiocy) could filter through. Just MHO.

read the post. all of it. especially the part where i said, "my belief is that He uses medicine". i never said it is God's will to let your kid die when a medical treatment could save him.

it looks like, once again, you don't respect diversity or the right of individuals to have faith but you can't force everyone to be like you. just as you have the right to throw your children to the mercy of medicine others have the right to throw their children to the mercy of God.

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