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Old 10-30-2007, 05:54 PM
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Default Do Americans Owe Service to the Nation?
Do Americans Owe Service to the Nation?

by Sheldon Richman, September 17, 2007


Why does the idea of “national service” never cease to attract American intellectuals? Every few years some prominent “thinker” proposes that young Americans “serve their country” in either a civilian or military capacity. Such service is always promised to have a profound effect on both the nation and the people doing the serving.

The latest example comes from Time magazine managing editor Richard Stengel. In his September 10 cover article, “A Time to Serve,” Stengel laments a lack of involvement in civic life by Americans. Too many people do nothing more than vote and pay taxes, he says. Well of course they pay taxes. They are threatened with prison if they don’t.

Stengel is convinced that if the republic is to survive, young people must “serve.” He cites the Founders as authorities on the need to exert effort in order to “keep” the republic, but he is on somewhat weak ground here. There are Founders and then there are Founders. The Founders known as the Anti-Federalists thought that the way to keep a republic is to have 13 small ones joined in a confederation, not a big consolidated one. In a large nation people would have a hard time keeping an eye on the government, and the resulting lack of “eternal vigilance” would be dangerous to liberty. Thus it’s ironic for Stengel to be looking to Washington to lead the effort to preserve the republic.

But the historical point aside, why is it thought appropriate that people should be either forced or bribed to perform national service as defined by politicians? To his credit, Stengel doesn’t want to compel people to perform the tasks he deems “service.” How thoughtful. However, the taxpayers would be forced to finance his program, so it would not be fully voluntary.

Stengel is not merely urging people to do good deeds in an organized way, say, to join groups to teach poor kids to read or to clean up their communities. He is talking about service to the Nation.

But where do people get the idea that the Nation is something to be served? Despite Stengel’s invocation of the Founders, this is a profoundly un-American concept. It’s far more consistent with the European despotism of the first half of the twentieth century. You don’t have to look hard to find quotations by Mussolini (dare I mention Hitler?) about the duty of the individual to serve the Nation.

To call this idea un-American is no mere polemical device. It is a literal truth. Service to the Nation is a mystical notion. Its advocates reify the abstraction “nation” and call on us to sacrifice for it.

This is not what most Americans thought at the time of the founding. In the classical liberal philosophy held by many people in the late eighteenth century (inspired by John Locke), “society,” “nation,” and “country” were concepts indicating people’s living together to enjoy life, liberty, and property in collective security. These were important conveniences that permitted individual persons to live fully as human beings. They were means, not ends in themselves. The Nation was not something to serve. An idea like that can get you killed in a far-off imperial war.


This is far from what Stengel has in mind. He writes,
But at this moment in our history, 220 years after the Constitutional Convention, the way to get citizens involved in civic life, the way to create a common culture that will make a virtue of our diversity, the way to give us that more capacious sense of “we” — finally, the way to keep the Republic — is universal national service.... It is the simple but compelling idea that devoting a year or more to national service, whether military or civilian, should become a countrywide rite of passage, the common expectation and widespread experience of virtually every young American.
In the land of the free, the state should not be pushing people into service, creating a common culture, or giving them a sense of “we.” That Stengel believes this is a proper function of the government shows how far removed he is from the philosophy the first Americans embraced.



Sheldon Richman is senior fellow at The Future of Freedom Foundation, author of Tethered Citizens: Time to Repeal the Welfare State, and editor of The Freeman magazine. Visit his blog “Free Association” at www.sheldonrichman.com. Send him email.
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Last edited by ViRedd; 10-30-2007 at 06:03 PM..
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Old 10-30-2007, 06:02 PM
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Default Hell no!
War is made for profit. Why would u die to make the rich men behind the war richer? That' the dumbest question i've ever heard.
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Old 10-30-2007, 07:08 PM
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i agree that national service should not be forced, but shouldn't one be compelled by ones morals to help a neighbor or assist the poor? As a good human being a person should feel the need to help thoes around oneself, not forced, that's how revolutions start.

then again that could only be realized in a perfect world without greed and prejudice.
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:44 AM
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that Stengel guy has lost his marbles. voluntarily committing to exemplary citizenship would do infinitely more good than mandatory government servitude of any duration. his idea of a "rite of passage" sounds like a marketing hook from the islamofascist recruiting manual.






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Old 10-31-2007, 11:01 AM
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Along these lines, how do you feel about the pledge of allegiance, isn't this another brainwash by the US government. I think my grandkids should not be subjected to this brainwash. The flag is nothing more than a piece of cloth designating this nations difference from all other nations flags. When flown at the United nations, it is but one of hundreds of flags flown in the breeze. I have no allegiance to a piece of cloth, maybe a really old pair of my levis, but not the US flag.
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Old 10-31-2007, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by medicineman View Post
Along these lines, how do you feel about the pledge of allegiance, isn't this another brainwash by the US government. I think my grandkids should not be subjected to this brainwash. The flag is nothing more than a piece of cloth designating this nations difference from all other nations flags. When flown at the United nations, it is but one of hundreds of flags flown in the breeze. I have no allegiance to a piece of cloth, maybe a really old pair of my levis, but not the US flag.
yes, i think it's a pointless, brainwash thing when it's done out of habit but it's not bad to affirm the pledge when you mean it. i just wish schools would really commit to patriotism and make the students memorize parts of the constitution, at least the bill of rights.






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Old 10-31-2007, 11:28 AM
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The last paragraph in the article states:

"In the land of the free, the state should not be pushing people into service, creating a common culture, or giving them a sense of “we.” That Stengel believes this is a proper function of the government shows how far removed he is from the philosophy the first Americans embraced.

And Stengel isn't alone in this type of thinking. He and many of his fellow Americans are of this belief and its been instilled into their minds by our public institutions, our statist politicians from both the left and the right, and the general "modern" thought that all good comes from government. Modern Americans have embrased the Nanny State. If you all remember, when Bill Clinton was president, he kept referring to We The People as "customers" of government. This type of thinking is so far removed from what real Americanism is all about, its not even funny.


Vi


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Last edited by ViRedd; 10-31-2007 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 10-31-2007, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SEganja View Post
shouldn't one be compelled by ones morals to help a neighbor or assist the poor?
Yes. And these kinds of things are completely do-able without working for the government. Food Not Bombs has nothing to do with the government, yet they feed the homeless and hungry. People just need to realise that they can organise beneficial services to the community without Uncle Sam.

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Originally Posted by 7xstall View Post
i just wish schools would really commit to patriotism and make the students memorize parts of the constitution, at least the bill of rights.
Students should definitely know their rights. But teaching patriotism? What is patriotism, anyways? All the patriot types these days are just nationalists. And what is nationalism? It's not love of the land. Nobody can tell where America ends and Canada begins just by looking at the land; it doesn't suddenly change on the other side of the invisible line. It's not love of the citizens, because Americans are seriously divided into classes of age, race, class, orientation, religion, and even sex to such a degree that they cannot empathize with one another. It's not love of the culture, because "American culture" is extremely varied and is not solely what is seen on TV. I think it's nothing more than love for a system of government and nearly unconditional support for it's actions and opinions.

Even when people call themselves patriots and oppose the government's actions to some extent, you still find the unsavory trait of elitism - they think that they are somehow better, stronger, more just than other people because they just so happened to be born in the US. Is this really something we want to teach to the kids?
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Old 10-31-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViRedd View Post
The last paragraph in the article states:

"In the land of the free, the state should not be pushing people into service, creating a common culture, or giving them a sense of “we.” That Stengel believes this is a proper function of the government shows how far removed he is from the philosophy the first Americans embraced.

And Stengel isn't alone in this type of thinking. He and many of his fellow Americans are of this belief and its been instilled into their minds by our public institutions, our statist politicians from both the left and the right, and the general "modern" thought that all good comes from government. Modern Americans have embrased the Nanny State. If you all remember, when Bill Clinton was president, he kept referring to We The People as "customers" of government. This type of thinking is so far removed from what real Americanism is all about, its not even funny.


Vi


You see VI, your view of real Americanism comes from a priveledged stance. It is fine to espouse all these wonderful theories and philosophies when you have multitudes of money and priveledge. Try telling this to inner city dwellers that are scraping out a living on the dregs of society, tell this to a single mother that only makes enough to survive with no hope of ever getting above the fray, tell this to all those people that live in them thar hills, the real paupers in the society and you know what you'll hear, Hey Buddy, can you help me out of this dillema, do you really give a shit, or are you just going back to your big house and closing the door so you can go on the internet and espouse all the wonderful things about constitutional America, something we neither know or care about. where is our next meal coming from, tell us that and we'll listen. Here's the dillema. We have 250 million dogs and only 100 million bones.
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:09 PM
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Bullshit Med. That's nothing but class envy retoric. America is still the land of opportunity. No other society outproduces the American society. People are literally dying to get into this country because of the opportunities it affords. People start out with nothing in this country and reach unbelievable goals. You constantly paint a negative picture of poverty, hunger, strife and hopelessness. Go check out a copy of Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath" for God's sake.

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