250 million dogs and 100 million bones, thats the truth.

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Life is good, the water is sweet. The ground keeps moving beneath my feet.

Nice slogan Med but not true at all. The wealth pie is ever expanding in this country. Regardless of status, income, race or religion, if one applies one's self, one can succeed in this country without being on the government dole.

Being broke is temporary. Poverty is a state of mind.

Vi

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Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.

Well said by a rich person, this is the way rich pricks think. The world is one big apple with riches for all, bullshit. The middle class is taking it up the arse, you should know with all the foreclosures happening. At my wifes church, there are so many people losing their homes that the preacher is having a special prayer vigil for them. You rich dicks think there is plenty of money for everyone, that is probably true if the rich dickheads gave up their hoarding ways, but no, they sit on their piles of money and spout rhetorical bullshit like the world is one big apple and there are bites for everyone. When someone like myself brings it to general attention, we are labeled commies and socialist infiltrators, lazy assholes trying to get a free ride. It's like this ,isn't it VI, I've got mine, fuck you.

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Life is good, the water is sweet. The ground keeps moving beneath my feet.

true.




this is very untrue.

Poverty is much, much harder then you think to break free of. It can be done if you are a kid taught VERY young to reach for college and career and to work your ass off BEFORE you get into a relationship or have kids. But this message is NOT taught, stressed and drilled into children by their parents and teachers the way you think it must be.

And that's just scratching the surface of the problem with poverty. Basically, you have to work your mutha fucking, starving for food, son of a bitch, poor ass off to get out of poverty. And if you fucked up and got a girl pregnant and wish to do the right thing for her and the kid, you fucking screwed.

Not one program by the government gets you out of poverty. They are there to help keep you from starving to death, and they don't always work at that.

Basically, you don't know a thing about poverty. That statement "Poverty is a state of mind' is the most rediculous, ignorant and not to mention heartless comment I've heard in a long time. This is not a personal attack, but don't talk about things you don't know about. I do.

Closet sez ...

"Basically, you don't know a thing about poverty. That statement "Poverty is a state of mind' is the most rediculous, ignorant and not to mention heartless comment I've heard in a long time. This is not a personal attack, but don't talk about things you don't know about. I do."

And just like the misdirected Med, you're making assumptions about me without knowing one iota about my background. You are talking to a person who had his first full time job at the age of twelve. You are talking to a person who fished under piers at the age of eight, then peddled the fish on his bicycle for a nickle apeice. You are talking to someone who sold the Sunday newspapers door to door at seven in the morning every Sunday as a kid for two years. You are talking to someone who built his own shoeshine box and shined shoes to get the money for the movies on Saturday. You are talking to someone who never belonged to a union, never collected unemployment or asked anyone for a stinkin' dime without working for it. You are talking to someone who was raised by a single Mom who worked full time to put clothes on my back while I fended for myself. You are talking to someone who had a positive work ethic instilled in him by a mother who also never asked for a dime she didn't earn. What I do to earn a living now, 99% of the American population would fail at because they just wouldn't have the balls to do it. You are talking to someone who, over the past 32 years, has not had an employer paid vacation, medical insurance or sick leave. That's right junior ... I pay my own way and always have.

Now then, with all of that said, I DO agree with much of what you posted. While the opportunities do exist, America doesn't GUARANTEE success for anyone. And that's the way it should be in a free country. Any country that guarantees a certain level of success for some, HAS to limit the success of others. And that's not freedom. While it may be the ideal for you and Med ... its not for me. I'll take the country as is, where I (and others) can make what I can make of it, over the soft belly of socialism every time.

Bill Cosby has stated the path out of poverty very well. If you haven't heard of it, here's his speech addressed to the NAACP:

American Rhetoric: Bill Cosby - Address at the NAACP's Commemoration of the 50th of Brown v. Board of Education

If after reading the speech, you still think my statement that "poverty is a state of mind" is bullshit ... well so be it. Your thinking, and the like thinking of others is not my fault.

Vi

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Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.

A high quantity of goods produced does not necessarily equal a high standard of life for the majority. I'll admit that relative to much of the world, America has high standards, especially when you compare the US to a third world country. But we still throw away tons (literally) of food while people go hungry both here and abroad. Also, you need to ask yourself exactly why the third world countries are so far behind. They have suffered immense losses as a result of being what basically amounts to colonies for wealthy countries like the US to flood with all of our many, many goods. The only people winning are at the top, and it's getting harder and harder to get there.

Nothing wrong with a strong work ethic. However, the corporations and billionaires of the US do not share this work ethic. They depend upon people like you to work as hard as possible for as little as possible. Perhaps that's why you have never enjoyed a paid vacation from work, the peace of mind that comes with medical insurance, or sick leave so that you can maintain your health. You think the billionaires can say the same? Do you think they care if you get hurt and face sky-high medical bills? Do you think that as an honest, hard-working person, you deserve these things?

I think you do. And if you don't, then they've definitely won. They've made fortunes at your expense, sunbathing on the beach while you were shining shoes. But, they deserve it, right? Great work ethic there.

NoCash ...

I hardly know where to begin ... so I'll begin at the beginning:

We've discussed the plight of the third world countries many times here in the forum. I like to use the examples of San Diego and Mexico. What causes the immense change as you travel south through San Diego then across the Mexican border? Also, I like to use the example comparison between East and West Germany during the Cold War. What was the cause of prosperity in the West and abject poverty in the East? Both of these scenarios should answer your question as to why third world countries are so far behind. Its because of their economic and governmental systems. That's it, period. You've admitted that we produce so much food that we can literally throw it away. Would you prefer a system like Mexico or East Germany where we would starve? Hell man, we even provide school children with free breakfasts and lunches.

Your top/down theory doesn't hold water either. In Mexico the few plunder the many. All the wealth is held by a few elite families. Here, everyone plunders everyone. In America plunder is an equal opportunity employer. ~lol~

On your corporations taking advantage of me: No way, Jose' ... I'm an independent contractor. I work for myself. As an independent contractor, I pay my own way ... I pay for my vacations, I pay for my health care and I pay for my sick leave. And yes, I do deserve these things ... but not at someone else's expense. I have no boss dictating to me other than the one true boss of us all ... the wonderful person called Mister and Mrs. Customer. As an independent contractor, I can serve Mr. and Mrs. Customer as many hours a day and as many days a week as I want to. I can limit my income or expand it at will. I give myself my own raises just by turning up the dial on effort. I like it that way ... no overbearing bosses to contend with. No corporate political ladder to climb. If I don't like you, I don't have to do business with you. If I really like you, I can cut my prices to the bone for you. If I do a great job for you, I can ask for referrals with confidence ... and you'll be glad to refer your friends to me. Why not?

The problem with thinking like Med's, Closet's and your's is that it is negative thinking. With a negative attitude one will always see the glass as half empty, the economy as bad and the breaks in life going against you. The key is to find out what other people need and then try to fill that need. Success comes from helping other people get what THEY want. As a result, you will get what you want in return. Life's nothing more than an echo my friend.

Vi

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Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.

You people are fighting an age's old battle, Rich vs. Poor, Wealth and Privledge over Poverty a Labor. Hope you guys have the jaw bones to go for lets say a few hundred years of debate? that's how old a beat out your arguments are.

Taking a look at econimics over history compared with geneology one would easily recognize the randomness of being born in to poverty v. property. people's grandparents may have been dirt poor but they may have an income well above poverty and vice versa.

The real question is what has the science of economics really given us? Ever since people "evolved"(lack of a better word here) past a bartering economy what has any many truly "made for himself from nothing". jack shit.

So in essence, life sucks and maybe one day a lucky light may shine on you but until then be kind to your neighbors, don't always trust that property will be there and never give up hope that if property isn't there that it will never be there. Time is to constant for any variable to overcome it.

I applaud all your hard work in your life. Because it is the only way out of poverty. Unfortunately, I still disagree with your statement. Because millions of white, blacks and other minorities in THIS country work their fucking asses off and still live in poverty. Working hard does not guarantee a way out of poverty. It worked for you and I but others are not capable either physically or mentally to achieve what you or I can. That is why poverty is not a state of mind. It is a state of life…for many. And the majority will not pull themselves out of it. They will resign to making the best of it and hope the best for their children.

I think your mistake is assuming that others are as capable as you are, mentally. There's working hard and then there's working smart, you know.

BTW: i read Cosby's speech. It was very true but those are not the people I am talking about. I am talking about the true underprevilaged folks, like my poor family and the many others I knew growing up who worked very hard literally just to put food on the table. there was no buying $40 shoes. no saving money, there wasn't any money for extras.

Bill isn't even talking about poverty. he's talking about the poor parenting that occures in poverty. these are two different dilemas.

Again I stick with my premise, 250 Million dogs, 100 million bones. The rest eat shit. Just because VI is a workaholic and has "Made it" He thinks everyone can do it. Not everyone has the drive or the opportunities that VI had. This arguement that we need to import labor is such bullshit. What needs to happen is the employers need to pay a living wage, then Americans would gladly do the work. We've heard your rags to riches story VI, and look what it has done to you. Made you a selfish old curmudgeon with no heart or soul. A person that thinks everyone that cares about the poverty stricken is pushing communism. I'll take my humanity over his souless miserlyness anytime.

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Life is good, the water is sweet. The ground keeps moving beneath my feet.