No fillibuster for Repukes.Talks move forward

tical916

Well-Known Member
Med man need to update his ... meds.

Iraq was not illegal. Period at the end of that sentence. We killed no sitting President, his own ppl did.

razor sharp.

How wasn't it? Iraq and Saddam Hussein had nothing to do 9/11. If anything the USA, should have sent small squads to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Not start a war in Iraq.

If your going to play the "Hussein" was an evil man, card.. And it's our Holier than thou take on life, that we must take him out. Why aren't we doing the same in Iran or North Korea?

"Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" is just fancy safe way of saying torture. Like it was said before, there is a reason they tried keeping that on the down low. It should go against our moral standards. And it just plain doesn't work. You can get people to admit to anything if your torturing them. Do you think they tortured these people for a few hours, and when they denied knowing anything let them go?

I believe we need to get off this high horse we have been riding on, stop trying to spread Democracy and freedom through wars. This is pretty messed up right now, and is into a downward spiral. We are not the top dog of the world anywhere. And lost a lot of credibility in the last 6 years.
 

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
I'm referring to gitmo, rendition and the whole tactic of trying to detain people indefinitely without the right to habeus corpus and access to the courts, which is unprecedented in american history.


You do not know your history very well do you.Americas first Terrorist lincoln pulled the same things during the war of states.:wall::wall:

And everybody loves that dick....:wall:
 

Jack*Herrer420

Well-Known Member
I fought in Iraq, but I think it was a mistake to take saddam out of power. His military power was keeping iran and the other shiites in check. Having them fight amongst themselves, prevented them from really fighting us. Let them do what they want, and if they try anything else, we should REALLY go to war, and end it in a month.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
Iraq was a mistake? understatement. iraq was a waste of time, money, and lives. Sadam had a bunch of arabs who hate each other in check. that is very very VERY difficult to do. something AMERICA isn't going to be able to do, no matter how modern it's millitary, navy and airforce is. the center of Islamic radicalism, and intolerance is SAUDI ARABIA. America went to iraq for all the contracts that go out for war, building guns n shit, rebuilding everything they tore down, "security" contracts, etc. etc. etc........ it's like if 15 canadians get on a plane and fly it into the eiffel tower, then the french teams up with a bunch of allies and pummels the US. and canada just sits back pretending it had nothing to do with it......americans and canadians kinda look alike, but it's two different places.... get what i'm saying??

and afganistan is another mistake. Afganistan is a country that takes down empires, anybody who paid attention in World History in high school would know this. NOBODY has EVER invaded afganistan and stayed. it's too rough, too arid, too cold, no resources, nothing to want, nothing to have...
 

abe23

Active Member
and afganistan is another mistake. Afganistan is a country that takes down empires, anybody who paid attention in World History in high school would know this. NOBODY has EVER invaded afganistan and stayed. it's too rough, too arid, too cold, no resources, nothing to want, nothing to have...
Yes, but we need to stay the course so that we can get more kush and afghani genetics into our weed. If we don't, there won't be any super skunk and the terrorists win.
 

medicineman

New Member
Yes, but we need to stay the course so that we can get more kush and afghani genetics into our weed. If we don't, there won't be any super skunk and the terrorists win.
DUDE, the US is burning MJ fields as we speak, so much for your cannibis breeding
 

TheBlazehero

Active Member
Med man need to update his ... meds.

Iraq was not illegal. Period at the end of that sentence. We killed no sitting President, his own ppl did.

razor sharp.
Iraq is definitely an illegal war. First of all, Congress unconstitutionally gave the executive branch the authority to engage in military enforcement of UN resolutions, ie authority to declare war. Congress is not allowed by the Constitution to delegate their authority to whom ever they please.
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
Iraq is definitely an illegal war. First of all, Congress unconstitutionally gave the executive branch the authority to engage in military enforcement of UN resolutions, ie authority to declare war. Congress is not allowed by the Constitution to delegate their authority to whom ever they please.
Iraq may not have been handled well but it was the right thing to do and it has been a tremendous success. If you don't believe that you should read "The Pentagon's New Map," and other books by Thomas PM Barnett who, by the way, is a democrat and was an Obama supporter.
 

tical916

Well-Known Member
Iraq may not have been handled well but it was the right thing to do and it has been a tremendous success. If you don't believe that you should read "The Pentagon's New Map," and other books by Thomas PM Barnett who, by the way, is a democrat and was an Obama supporter.
Iraq was a success? Are you kidding me? Success for who? The country is worst off now, than it was when Saddam ruled.

I`ll take what your smoking..
 

SmokeyMcChokey

Well-Known Member
at least now the kurds arent going to be poisoned by american made bioweapons. That is the only reason we should have taken him down. High horse or not, its not right to use biological warfare on people of your own country. It should have been a small coalition of nations to take out the hussein regime then allow the people to scurry for the power.
 

medicineman

New Member
at least now the kurds arent going to be poisoned by american made bioweapons. That is the only reason we should have taken him down. High horse or not, its not right to use biological warfare on people of your own country. It should have been a small coalition of nations to take out the hussein regime then allow the people to scurry for the power.
The key words in the above are: "in your own country", I believe that means an atonomous leader of His own country. Uhh, we shouldn't have been involved at all. It was the Neo-Cons and Bush/Cheney that started that war for the contractors, the weapons manufacturers, and big oil. The same old shit, kids dying to make old men wealthy. And you say it was a success. That must be a joke, or else you are discombobulated (Fucking nuts).
 
Right, so having the government introduce sweeping legislation that would give state and federal governments some modest powers to regulate healthcare markets in order to make it accessible to all americans is a grab for power, huh?



I'm not a democrat but i'm forced to vote for them because the republicans have become the party of stupidity and nay-saying. How can i vote for the people who brought us hurricane katrina, ..
That's AWESOME, dude. I had no idea Bush had control of the weather too. A friggin hurricane, man? Damn, dawg, now I'm laffing too hard to type. I think I'll go fill the vape bag again and try to remember that line. Good one, bro...:lol::lol::lol:

If man evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?:bigjoint:
 

medicineman

New Member
That's AWESOME, dude. I had no idea Bush had control of the weather too. A friggin hurricane, man? Damn, dawg, now I'm laffing too hard to type. I think I'll go fill the vape bag again and try to remember that line. Good one, bro...:lol::lol::lol:

If man evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?:bigjoint:
I agtree with the monkey thing, but I'm pretty sure the dude was referring to the lack of action by the Bush regime to the victims of Katrina. In fact the Neo-Cons have used it to privatize most everything from schools to condos. No, Bush did not cause Katrina, but he sure fucked over the victims.
 
Also note the Tenth amendment, granting all rights not prohibited by or granted to the fed in the constitution. I would assume this means regulation of healthcare and insurance. Maybe we should scrap the bill and start on a local basis. That way at least they can say they tried to listen to the constitution instead of pissing on the bill of rights.
+ rep for constitutional knowledge, putting you above 92% of the members on the board here at RIU.
 
I don't think I've been investigated by the feds, but I know that all the data going in and out of the country was tapped into wholesale and all that information then got sifted through for information on terrorism....
I was really referring to the way the majority of terrorism suspects were handled by the bush administration with a total disregard and contempt for own laws as well international ones. I'm referring to gitmo, rendition and the whole tactic of trying to detain people indefinitely without the right to habeus corpus and access to the courts, which is unprecedented in american history. Remember that it was the courts that forced the previous administration to bring charges against these people.

Election > Gallup Poll. Sorry, but that's just the way our system works.

The republicans are acting like petulant children and not really offering any alternatives so yes, the more conservative democrats are doing their job for them. That's fine with me. They should be getting it over with within the next few months, methinks.

I haven't forgotten about the medicare part d, it's just that i consider that to be one of his accomplishments. I also didn't mention that he committed 50$bn of our money to fighting aids in africa...Bush did some things right, obviously. But he did some things wrong. Some really, really big things. And something gives me the feeling you weren't giving him as much shit as your as your giving obama.

Yes, teabaggers. I even occasionally say "that's totally gay" about things. I also know a few gay people and if they want to get married and have the same rights you and I have, that's fine by me.
I'll actually give you that one though. I should have said tea party protesters. My bad.
Also, why the hell would I call the protesters 'the n-word' (nigger, I presume?) They're almost all white, that doesn't make any sense. Also, I'm not a racist and don't call people that. I'm just poking fun at the silliness of this tea party movement, which is not based on reality but rather a strange alternate reality concocted by radio talkshow hosts...
Obviously the republicans didn't cause the hurricane, but they messed up pretty much every step in preventing and mitigating a serious disaster.
I thought I was through, but this is still going on here. Apparently this young man is suffering from outcome based education. With no real skills and no real knowledge, all he has is the mush stuffed into his little skull in the public education system.
Where to begin. point by point, I guess. Data mining is taking place on an incredible scale. It is certainly true that the Gov't could concievably collect and sift through all this data for terroristsm related linguistic patterns, but the problem is how to handle the sheer volume of data. Our government is not capable of doing anything like this efficiently. Probably subcontracted to the "Blackwater" of the internet. Who might that be? Try Googling it. Literally. Google data mining is much more of a threat to you than the Fed.
Terrorism suspects. Remember Daniel Pearl? KSM is the voice you hear growling in the background as he saws off Daniel's head. Shouting Allahu Akbar. His buddies are responsible for killing over 3,000 Americans less than a decade ago. I take that personal. I still remember. You want to cry about Gitmo? They get better care and treatment than our own prisoners in American jails, right down to the proper color of Skittles. Those assholes aren't American and have not one frigging right guaranteed by the US Constitution. With 40% or more of the prison population in jail for non-violent drug crimes, save your tears for the real victims of the world, the dead and imprisoned. You want to mourn for those scumbag Jihadists, take a fucking quarter and call your mother or someone else who cares, because it pisses me off to see you bleeding hearts moaning about the renditions and such. Kiss my Red, White and Blue Ass, son.

<Whew...Takes another hit...>

Now, another thing. You see, I am one of those "TeaBaggers" you scorn. Perhaps you can explain what it is that you find "silliness" in trying to bring this big monstrosity of a federal government back under control. The Original Tea Baggers (Remember the Boston Tea Party? Anybody? anybody? Beuller?) were patriots that had had enough of the Taxation without representation. They were sending a message to King George. Now we are sending a message to King Oba-Mao. The original message created this glorious experiment in freedom we call the United States almost 250 years ago. In our short history we have become the greatest nation on Earth. Ever.

Thats the reality, Abby. We are trying to save this Grand Experiment.

As for the Hurricane. The people in N.O. had a chance to leave and didn't. I will help the helpless, I am getting tired of helping the clueless.

This is, as always, just one grumpy old man's opinion.:bigjoint:
And if you disagree with me, you are probably a racist:cuss:
 
So, you're blind in one eye and can't see well out of the other, eh. The Republicans/Neo-Cons did start a war with the wrong country, killed a sitting president, (Ain't that against world laws?), gave 1.5 trillion in tax cuts to the rich, (Capital gains cuts mostly, and that is expresly for the rich.), did give wall street a billion or so in bailouts, (Bonus money) and pretty much fuck the economy to the point where it is still hemoraging jobs and capital. Uhhhh, I guess you missed all that, eh? 2 sides to every story, John.
Now I may be kind of blind, but I am aware that it was in fact the Iraqis who executed a Former dictator who had been convicted of War Crimes committed against Iraqis. Remember Chemical Ali? Him and Saddam were assholes. When he died he sure as shit wasn't a sitting president, though. He was a Hanging Ex-President at best.

Can't have it both ways Poncho. Either Oba-Mao saved the economy or he didn't. Getting kind of hard to blame Bush for the current deficit when he handed Oba-Mao around $850 Billion deficit and now it is over $1.4 Trillion and skying. Oba-Mao and the Fed have doubled the money supply by printing money day and night. Doubled the number of dollars in circulation. That is simply Devaluation and manipulation of the dollar that will result in its ultimate demise. Now remind me, did King Oba-Mao save us yet?

You know about those tax cuts, a high tide floats all boats. Your are just pissed that your frigging boat is so small and leaky.

This is usually just one fucked up dude's opinion.:bigjoint:
If you disagree with me, you are probably a racist.
 
How wasn't it? Iraq and Saddam Hussein had nothing to do 9/11. If anything the USA, should have sent small squads to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Not start a war in Iraq.

If your going to play the "Hussein" was an evil man, card.. And it's our Holier than thou take on life, that we must take him out. Why aren't we doing the same in Iran or North Korea?

"Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" is just fancy safe way of saying torture. Like it was said before, there is a reason they tried keeping that on the down low. It should go against our moral standards. And it just plain doesn't work. You can get people to admit to anything if your torturing them. Do you think they tortured these people for a few hours, and when they denied knowing anything let them go?

I believe we need to get off this high horse we have been riding on, stop trying to spread Democracy and freedom through wars. This is pretty messed up right now, and is into a downward spiral. We are not the top dog of the world anywhere. And lost a lot of credibility in the last 6 years.
While Saddam had no direct tie to 9/11, he was a bad guy that was daily shooting at Americans in the No Fly Zone. He was purported to have nuclear materials, and many nations around the world thought so, too. He was friendly with terrorists and had traing camps all over Iraq. Still, there should have been no war. It was not well researched, but nobody but the libs are crying that Saddam is gone.

You are wrong about Enhanced Techniques. They do work. It is a dirty little secret, but true nonetheless. KSM gave up info that proved to be true and we were able to disrupt operations and capture more Jihadist assholes. Works for me. Get off your moral high horse, Tina, and smell the ricin. The jihadists cut peoples head off. True torture that, if you saw pictures of it, would make you puke.

Not the Top Dog? Who exactly is the bigger dog, Dawg? If you say Al Qaeda, you may be close, but it ain't to late to get this dog back in shape. Just suck it up, and do the right thing. You know what it is. Just the opposite of wht your own little pinhead tells you.

And if you disagree with me, you are worse than Keith Olbermann.
 

tical916

Well-Known Member
While Saddam had no direct tie to 9/11, he was a bad guy that was daily shooting at Americans in the No Fly Zone. He was purported to have nuclear materials, and many nations around the world thought so, too. He was friendly with terrorists and had traing camps all over Iraq. Still, there should have been no war. It was not well researched, but nobody but the libs are crying that Saddam is gone.

You are wrong about Enhanced Techniques. They do work. It is a dirty little secret, but true nonetheless. KSM gave up info that proved to be true and we were able to disrupt operations and capture more Jihadist assholes. Works for me. Get off your moral high horse, Tina, and smell the ricin. The jihadists cut peoples head off. True torture that, if you saw pictures of it, would make you puke.

Not the Top Dog? Who exactly is the bigger dog, Dawg? If you say Al Qaeda, you may be close, but it ain't to late to get this dog back in shape. Just suck it up, and do the right thing. You know what it is. Just the opposite of wht your own little pinhead tells you.

And if you disagree with me, you are worse than Keith Olbermann.
I`m with you all the way Saddam was a horrible person. But him having nuclear weapons, was completely made up to start a war. If that's the reason we went to war with them, why not North Korea or Iran? North Korea basically slapped the rest of the world in the face, by testing nuclear weapons.

Torture does not work. If you torture anyone long enough they will tell you anything.

We are the "morally high" people are we not, that's why we went to war with Iraq.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
How wasn't it? Iraq and Saddam Hussein had nothing to do 9/11. If anything the USA, should have sent small squads to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Not start a war in Iraq.

If your going to play the "Hussein" was an evil man, card.. And it's our Holier than thou take on life, that we must take him out. Why aren't we doing the same in Iran or North Korea?

"Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" is just fancy safe way of saying torture. Like it was said before, there is a reason they tried keeping that on the down low. It should go against our moral standards. And it just plain doesn't work. You can get people to admit to anything if your torturing them. Do you think they tortured these people for a few hours, and when they denied knowing anything let them go?

I believe we need to get off this high horse we have been riding on, stop trying to spread Democracy and freedom through wars. This is pretty messed up right now, and is into a downward spiral. We are not the top dog of the world anywhere. And lost a lot of credibility in the last 6 years.

I'll just blanket answer all of the spin u've learned from the media and hypocritical politicians.
The war in Iraq was predicated by the first one, desert storm. In that peace agreement, many conditions were created to keep Saddam in check and from retaliation upon the Kurds in the north. No fly zones for the Iraqi air force were set up. This was not a U.N. war. We are bound by no resolution prohibiting us from defending ourselves. I'm not talking about 9/11. There was many instances of Saddam breaking the peace and firing at our pilots. That right there set up a legal incursion. that was years ago. There is no expiration on the violations.

Regardless, Saddam was a victim of his own hubris and bad bad timing. Saddam Hussein allowed the world to believe he had weapons of mass destruction to deter rival Iran and did not think the United States would stage a major invasion, according to an FBI interrogator who questioned the Iraqi leader after his capture.

This was a terrible mistake and he admitted as much before he was hung by the neck until dead.

So it wasn't one sided at all. Clinton had the right to take care of Saddam, but he chose not to.
As for Congress not being able to give the President the nod to go to war ... nonsense. The US constitution clearly spells out that our country will have no outside force dictating our foreign policy (think U.N.).

In the end, the U.N. can go pound sand.

What did we gain? That's an easy one. We freed 55 million ppl. which is no small thing. We gathered Al Queda into one central location and soundly defeated them, actually humiliation is a word which comes to mind. That war ENDED Al Quedas influence over the Middle East. Top leaders were either killed or captured.

Even Osama Bin laden called Iraq the Central Front. We won, he lost. Instead of Osama riding through the streets of the Middle east causing trouble, he is holed up in some caves. Either way, his power has been greatly diminished.

We also took the fight to Al Queda, and by keeping them busy abroad, our shores have been safe form attack (so far).

Some might say we had a hair trigger with Iraq. That may be so. I can live with that. With crazy GB in office, which country was going to stand up and attack us again at home? Answer: NO ONE. Crazy George will attack us right back with a big footprint. That's not a bad thing. You don't see anyone attacking Moscow do you? Bejing? Because that would be a sure suicide for the attacking forces.

Projecting weakness (Clinton) emboldened the terrorists. We are projecting that weakness all over again. It is noticed, it will be acted upon down the road.

The Iraq war was legal. The Iraq war was moral. The Iraq war was a victory.
Crazy George did us all a huge favor and history will be very very kind to him. At least when it comes to foreign policy. After the dust settles, he will gradually ascend to near the top of the historically great presidents. When duty called, he answered. When the US was attacked, he responded. Al Queda was concentrated, humiliated and defeated. When the going got tough, and the insipid politicians in Washington DOVE for cover and made every excuse possible for denying their initial commitment, which is quite GUTLESS, did GB quit? He ignored the polls (as he should have), and doubled down after careful consult with the top military brass. That's true leadership. GB had some bad faults and domestically, he dropped the ball, no doubt (along with Congress of course).

Saddam knew in the end he did it to himself. He miscalculated in Kuwait, and he miscalculated in boasting he had WMD's. He ran out of luck. So be it.

Iraq was a mistake? understatement. iraq was a waste of time, money, and lives. Sadam had a bunch of arabs who hate each other in check. that is very very VERY difficult to do. something AMERICA isn't going to be able to do, no matter how modern it's millitary, navy and airforce is. the center of Islamic radicalism, and intolerance is SAUDI ARABIA. America went to iraq for all the contracts that go out for war, building guns n shit, rebuilding everything they tore down, "security" contracts, etc. etc. etc........ it's like if 15 canadians get on a plane and fly it into the eiffel tower, then the french teams up with a bunch of allies and pummels the US. and canada just sits back pretending it had nothing to do with it......americans and canadians kinda look alike, but it's two different places.... get what i'm saying??

and afganistan is another mistake. Afganistan is a country that takes down empires, anybody who paid attention in World History in high school would know this. NOBODY has EVER invaded afganistan and stayed. it's too rough, too arid, too cold, no resources, nothing to want, nothing to have...
Iraq was a success? Are you kidding me? Success for who? The country is worst off now, than it was when Saddam ruled.

I`ll take what your smoking..
 

tical916

Well-Known Member
Are you kidding me? Don't give me this liberal news spin bullshit. I think for myself and am not influenced by the crap spewed out from both sides..

If our plan was to go into Iraq, removed Hussein from office and leave everyone else to fight for themselves.. I'd say we won.

But we want to turn Iraq and in larger part the Middle East into a peaceful democratic state. How have we won that?


So you see no correlation between 9/11 and us attacking Hussein? I`m pretty sure that's why we were going there..

We didn't attack Iraq before, because most Americans knew it would not be worth it. Why waste billions of dollars and thousands of our friends and childrens' lives messing with someone elses' problems? 9/11 came and Cheney/Bush decided it was time to get rich and start a war.

Sure we killed Al Queada, but your wrong in that they are defeated. They are a guerrilla army. They will hide out till we leave and then go back to business, that's what they do.


Everyone from our citizens to everyone overseas, thought George W. Bush was a fool. He single handedly lost our country tons of credibility.
 
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