Rocky Mountain News: Local

GOLDEN - Colorado smokers grousing about no longer being able to light up in bars should consider the plight of a couple banned by a judge from smoking in their own home.
Colleen and Rodger Sauve earlier this month lost a court battle to overturn a Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Homeowners Association rule that targeted their cigarette use because the smell of burning tobacco drifted into other condos in the four-unit complex where Colleen has lived, and smoked, for more than five years.

"I don't understand how you get to change the rules in the middle of the game," Colleen Sauve said Thursday. "There has to be a limit to a homeowners association's authority, especially when this (smoking) is a lawful act."

The legal battle began after the condo association responded to a complaint from the Sauve's next- door neighbor, Penelope Boyd, about the smoke and odor she said was coming from the Sauves' condo.

Boyd's daughter, Christine Shedron, said the problem is not just the smell, but her mother's sensitivity to it.

"It makes her nauseated; it makes her sick," Shedron said. "The thing about this is that this is not just my mom against these people. There have been complaints from every person that has lived in that complex with the exception of one or two."

After each side spent thousands of dollars unsuccessfully trying to mitigate the problem with insulation, foam, filters and air purifiers and a mediation effort failed, the association decided to pass an amendment prohibiting smoking under a covenant that previously dealt with nuisances that could be considered "an annoyance to residents."

"If you are going to cite smoke as a nuisance, where does that lead us? Half the time, downtown Golden smells like the (Coors) brewery," Colleen Sauve said. "There are odors everywhere that disturb people."

District Judge Lily Oeffler sided with the association in her Nov. 7 ruling, finding that "shared airspace in the soffit area permits smoke or smoke smell to migrate."

"The issue of whether there was actual smoke or simply a smoke smell is irrelevant. Testimony substantiated an almost constant smell of cigarette smoke. . . . Clearly, the smoke smell constitutes a nuisance under these circumstances," Oeffler wrote.

Legal analyst Scott Robinson said Colorado law upholds the power of homeowners associations to "enact rules that govern the conduct of tenants and the appearance and upkeep of the premises."

"The court has to decide what is legitimately a nuisance," Robinson said. "It really is a fine line. Smoking is a voluntary activity which does create a recognizable odor."

But Bonnie Ferguson, a spokeswoman for the Coalition for Equal Rights, which was formed to help mom-and-pop bars fight Colorado's new ban on smoking in bars, restaurants and other public places, said Oeffler's ruling goes too far.

"It's not only that they (anti-smoking groups) are trying to make it a health issue, now they are trying to make it a nuisance. The biggest part of it is that now they are going after people's property rights," Ferguson said.

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The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. United State Constitution, Art. I Sec. 9 Par. 2

"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism" -- Howard Zinn

Even though I'm an ex-smoker and hate smoking as much as the next guy, I'd say this is going too far. Maybe they'll have to have smoking and non-smoking condos to prevent this from happening again. " The rights of the people in their homes and propertys shall not be abridged", a quote from somewhere!

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Life is good, the water is sweet. The ground keeps moving beneath my feet.

When the rights of someone involves something that causes cancer and infringes on my right to breath clean air it isn't going too far. That is why I was so desperately trying to find out info on vaporizers. If they are really better for us then smoking weed why don't those with experience with them tell us their experiences pros and cons so we know what to look for and what to look out for. Man those things are expensive and do they really work?

mogie, when it comes to someone telling you what you can and can not do in your own home (which you paid for) is going too far.. Please take off your militant non-smoker hat for a second and put on the hat that says "Don't Tread on Me."

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The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. United State Constitution, Art. I Sec. 9 Par. 2

"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism" -- Howard Zinn

We aren't talking about something as inert as buring incense. We are talking about an activity that is a known cancer causing agent.

If you want to ingest this product fine. But if this in anyway impacts anyother human in even the slighest way you are subjecting us to cancer causing materials. That would be unless the people in question are using a vaporizer to smoke their cigarrettes.

So you would agree with taking away people's rights then. I look at it this way, If I buy and pay for a house, no one has the right to tell me what I can or can not do inside of my house.

It would be like me coming into your house and telling you what you could or could not eat. It's the same principle.
I am sure you would not like it one bit.

Also (going for the throat here) The Science that they used to determine whether or not Second Hand Smoke kills or not is FLAWED.
Since there is no control group in any of those studies then there is nothing to base their theory on.
Any Credible Scientific Study has a control group.


Like I said before:

Please take off your militant non-smoker hat for a second and put on the hat that says "Don't Tread on Me."

Personally The Government nor any organization has the right to tell me or you what we can do in our own houses.

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The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. United State Constitution, Art. I Sec. 9 Par. 2

"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism" -- Howard Zinn

When you buy a home, you have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

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The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it. United State Constitution, Art. I Sec. 9 Par. 2

"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism" -- Howard Zinn

I don't smoke cigarettes- but as far as I know, every study that has purported to show a risk from second-hand smoke has been discredited. One of the best and most concise things I have seen on this subject was the Penn and Teller episode of "Bullshit!" that dealt with second-hand smoke.

I think the anti-smoking movement is largely driven by big business (who don't want to pay health-care costs for smokers) and anti-smoking beauracracies whose anti-smoking campaigns depend on government funding.

Second hand patchouli is responsible for way more discomfort than cigarette smoke.

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"There is a general place in your brain, I think, reserved for 'melancholy of relationships past'. It grows and prospers as life progresses, forcing you finally, against your better judgment, to listen to country music".- Kary Mullis, Nobel Prize Winner for Chemistry

Smoking is not a right.

When one buys a condo, one agrees to abide by the rules of the Home Owner's Association. I agree that the second-hand smoke issue is just that ... the totalitarians among us exercising their will. However ... the libertarian view would be; a person has the right to smoke, injest, drink or inject anything they wish ... AS LONG AS THEY DON'T INFRINGE UPON THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER IN THE PROCESS. These smokers alluded to here have clearly violated the rights of their neighbors to peaceful enjoyment of their property. They have violated the rules that they have agreed to obey. They couldn't have closed escrow on the condo without approving the HOA guidelines and bylaws.

Mogie sez ...

"That is why I was so desperately trying to find out info on vaporizers. If they are really better for us then smoking weed why don't those with experience with them tell us their experiences pros and cons so we know what to look for and what to look out for. Man those things are expensive and do they really work?"

Yes, vaporizors work great ... but some work better than others. I've used several and the best one to date is the Volcano. Expensive? Yes ... but you get what you pay for. Here's a guy on Ebay that has a good deal. He throws in everything except the kitchen sink:

eBay: INSANE VOLCANO VAPORIZER PACKAGE! YOU WONT BELIEVE IT! (item 200047582070 end time Nov-23-06 22:17:39 PST)

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Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.