The real Death Panels

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
From http://theactivist.org/blog/the-real-death-panels

The Real Death Panels

Posted by ydsblog on 9/17/09 • Categorized as Domestic, Lead Story, Misc
45,000 Deaths Each Year Linked to Lack of Insurance
Edward Hanway, CIGNA CEO, shown here with President Obama, made over $120 million in the past five years

JEFF MUCKENSTURM
Liberals and conservatives alike will often argue against adopting a universal, single-payer system like Canada’s for the United States because they say it will lead to rationed care.
But then they will immediately defend rationing in our system by saying, “We already have a doctor and nurse shortage, so if we gave coverage to everyone, we’d have to wait in long lines to get care.”
So, even though that’s not true, 47 million people in the US will just have to be excluded from the system altogether.
The result of American rationing by income, not level of need, is that in the U.S. “nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance,” according to a new Harvard study released today.
That’s two and a half times higher than the previous estimate by the Institute of Medicine in 2002.
“An increase in the number of uninsured and an eroding medical safety net for the disadvantaged likely explain the substantial increase in the number of deaths associated with lack of insurance. The uninsured are more likely to go without needed care,” says Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP).
No doubt, there is some rationing in Canada. But when I asked PNHP how many deaths there are in Canada due to being uninsured, Dr. David Himmelstein responded, “Uninsurance is such a non-issue there that no one tries to count.”
Even if you have insurance, you’re not safe from rationing. It occurs every time a private insurance corporation denies a claim.
According to the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee (CNA/NNOC), “More than one of every five requests for medical claims for insured patients, even when recommended by a patient’s physician, are rejected by California’s largest private insurers, amounting to very real death panels in practice daily in the nation’s biggest state.”
PacifiCare denied 40 percent of all California claims in the first six months of 2009. Cigna was still rejecting one-third of all claims for the first half of 2009.
Private insurers in California and across the nation deny (i.e. ration) needed care because of the high demand for profits from their stockholders.
Former CIGNA executive Wendell Potter explains what investors call the “medical loss ratio”:
Well, there’s a measure of profitability that investors look to, and it’s called a medical loss ratio. And it’s unique to the health insurance industry. And by medical loss ratio, I mean that it’s a measure that tells investors or anyone else how much of a premium dollar is used by the insurance company to actually pay medical claims. And that has been shrinking, over the years, since the industry’s been dominated by, or become dominated by for-profit insurance companies. Back in the early ’90s, or back during the time that the Clinton plan was being debated, 95 cents out of every dollar was sent, you know, on average was used by the insurance companies to pay claims. Last year, it was down to just slightly above 80 percent.
So, investors want that to keep shrinking. And if they see that an insurance company has not done what they think meets their expectations with the medical loss ratio, they’ll punish them. Investors will start leaving in droves.
I’ve seen a company stock price fall 20 percent in a single day, when it did not meet Wall Street’s expectations with this medical loss ratio.
Rationing in the US is astonishing.
It causes 120 people to die every day.
It leaves 47 million people in agony as they put off care until it’s an emergency.
And all of our suffering and dying makes a few people very, very rich.
We need to put private insurance corporations out of business immediately and provide a single-payer, Medicare-for-all system for everyone so that 45,000 people don’t have to lose their lives every year just because they don’t have insurance.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Get government out of the way.
The Feds have no authority to do anything about medical.
This is a state issue at best.
Or maybe its a personal issue one of personal resposibility.
Government gets in the way of people taking care of themselves.

My Plan :
Health savings accounts, with tax credits for money placed in it. (even if you get more backed then you put in I don't care)
High deductable Major Medical with 10-20 year coverage.
And Tax breaks for Pro Bono work for health care professionals.
Tort Reform, a small town doctor has to pay at least 40k a year for insurance.

You think theirs no doctors now wait till they all guit.
A mess will if you socialize.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
no...
you cannot get the government out of the way. this extreme deregulation is what is making this system worthless. get the government involved, either on a state (preferably) or federal level. these corporate board-people only care about themselves, and they are the ones pushing against any legislation regulating healthcare.

doctors that quit because they are not making millions of dollars shouldn't be doctors. these are the mediocre caregivers that have made malpractice such a big thorn in the side of health care.

we deserve better health care. we DONT deserve corporations bankrupting themselves and having tax payers bail them out. the same tax payers that lost their homes, got kicked out on their asses, same tax payers who loose businesses, same tax payers who pay for health care, then get claims denied.

there's things the people of America need and deserve. there's plenty of things it could do without. making a case against things we need and deserve, and attacking things we could do without is irrational.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
In some countries with so-called "socialized" medicine, they offer FREE tuition for medical students. So, you go to school for free - and when you graduate you're pretty much guaranteed a job with a decent wage.

Here? Medical school students graduate with sometimes 100's of thousands of dollars in debt - so of course they need a RIDICULOUS wage just to keep up with student loan payments.

I propose the following:

single payer, universal coverage provided by the government for EVERY American.

incentives for medical students (grants, scholarships, or just flat out free tuition for all)

redivider is right, if someone needs a million dollars to motivate them to choose a career, they aren't really passionate about that career. Do we want doctors who go into medicine because they LOVE it and want to help people, or doctors who just want a BMW and a vacation house in Dubai?
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
i'm not saying doctors should be paid less... i actually think doctors should be paid based on levels of success of treatment and satisfaction from patients.

any doctor that says they'll quit because they will be paid less is lying. Dr's don't know how to do anything else but be a doctor. they are not business people, they ain't pilots, they ain't mechanics. doctors are doctors PERIOD. i do believe a big incentive for people to study medicine is the prospect of making a lot of money, regardless of whether you are a good doctor or not.

i also know for a fact doctors refuse to treat patients if they do not have health care. it is a fact. either show them the insurance card as soon as you step in the door, or pay cash up front.

socialized medicine is a tricky subject, i don't know if to support it or to go against it.

i know there's plenty of people without health care, and they deserve it. just because some one is a janitor, or a mechanic, or a plumber, that does not mean they don't deserve as good health care as rich people. it is not right. these people work just as hard, if not harder, than rich people.... it's not fair that they have to live in a shittier home, in a worse neighborhood, drive a crappy car; but also not live as healthy as rich people because they can't afford it... this is america in the 21st century, we're supposed to have progressed somewhat in 50 years, other countries have......


having universal, EQUAL health care for all, regardless of social condition is a step forward in economic development, it will provide better quality of life for every one.

i'm not saying the gov't pay for breast implants and botox...

i'm saying people should get at least one check-up a year for free. preventive medicine will drive down costs. it's not such a difficult concept to grasp.

just like changing your oil every 3000 miles, flushing your engine, changing the transmission fluid, changing the brakes, all that good stuff actually ends up costing less than waiting for a complete break down of your car.... it also extends its life....


that type of preventive care for the body ends up being better for you, and costing less....

american health care is based on reactive medicine, it's inefficient and very costly....
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
i'm not saying doctors should be paid less... i actually think doctors should be paid based on levels of success of treatment and satisfaction from patients.

any doctor that says they'll quit because they will be paid less is lying. Dr's don't know how to do anything else but be a doctor. they are not business people, they ain't pilots, they ain't mechanics. doctors are doctors PERIOD. i do believe a big incentive for people to study medicine is the prospect of making a lot of money, regardless of whether you are a good doctor or not.

i also know for a fact doctors refuse to treat patients if they do not have health care. it is a fact. either show them the insurance card as soon as you step in the door, or pay cash up front.

socialized medicine is a tricky subject, i don't know if to support it or to go against it.

i know there's plenty of people without health care, and they deserve it. just because some one is a janitor, or a mechanic, or a plumber, that does not mean they don't deserve as good health care as rich people. it is not right. these people work just as hard, if not harder, than rich people.... it's not fair that they have to live in a shittier home, in a worse neighborhood, drive a crappy car; but also not live as healthy as rich people because they can't afford it... this is america in the 21st century, we're supposed to have progressed somewhat in 50 years, other countries have......


having universal, EQUAL health care for all, regardless of social condition is a step forward in economic development, it will provide better quality of life for every one.

i'm not saying the gov't pay for breast implants and botox...

i'm saying people should get at least one check-up a year for free. preventive medicine will drive down costs. it's not such a difficult concept to grasp.

just like changing your oil every 3000 miles, flushing your engine, changing the transmission fluid, changing the brakes, all that good stuff actually ends up costing less than waiting for a complete break down of your car.... it also extends its life....


that type of preventive care for the body ends up being better for you, and costing less....

american health care is based on reactive medicine, it's inefficient and very costly....
Doctors should definitely not be paid less. If we are to add millions more patients to their already crowded customer base, then we want to encourage MORE people to become doctors.

Yes, there are some countries with "socialized" medicine (where the gov't is the employer and sets the reimbursement rates for services) where doctors are paid far too little. But, there are countries with universal health plans (meaning private hospitals and government-provided insurance for every citizen) where they provide incentives for people to enter the medical profession and doctors are still some of the highest wage earners in the labor force.

I don't want the government to own the hospitals and employ the doctors, but I think private hospitals and government-provided insurance for every American could be quite successful, IF we provide those incentives to get people into the medical profession and encourage competitive wages for health care workers.
 
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