Here's where I stopped reading. You fell prey to logical fallacy, disregarding and alienating your audience. You either assume (1) that we're stupid enough to believe your illogical claims ('no one' is never acceptable in debate) or (2) that you simply don't care for logic or debate. Either way, everything following your ridiculous claim is defunct - product of weak reasoning and faulty foundations.

As usual, well done cracker . Way to alienate your audience. You're lack of awareness is troubling.

Yeah, you nailed it! The thing is, he's been doing this for a while now. But it is common knowledge - he pastes articles and passes them off as his.

One... they weren't wrong. The concept is true enough and a sad state of affairs in Britain. Their system is broken and going broke.
Our system is not broken, but Obama surely intends to make it broke.

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You haven't countered nothing, because the points you made are not valid, you are basing your counter on information you don't understand, regardless the accuracy of the information, because it does not state what you are saying.. (Brazko)

I am a Canadian and we have free health care up here.

I cannot beleive that the US doesn't have universal health care. I think that it is esential for any government to provide free health care to their citizens. Everyone deserves the right to free health care, and money shouldn't dictate how much care you are caplible of receiving. All insurance companies are scammers, and thier sole purpose is to maximize profits; in short, that means less care. And if you don't have insurance, your fucked.

I have never paid for any broken bone, stitch, or surgery that I have ever had. I have never been denied a test or a medication because my insurance doesn't cover it. We do have a 13% sales tax, and income tax levels in the 20% (30% if you make more than 200K). But it is a nice feeling knowing that some of my money is being used to help my neighbour if they fall ill, and vice versa. We also have alot of other government programs and assistance avalible for people who need it.

Cuba has better health care than you guys. WTF is that about.

A country's true merit doesn't come from how they treat their rich, but on how they treat their poor.

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I can believe we don't have it.
We have shot it down several times.
Its unconstitutional.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

Not to mention we are already in the hole defending the world from the boogy-man.
Wasting cash on boondoggle after half ass Boondoggle.
We owe what like 11 trillion dollars and rising fast.
We can't afford anymore government.
Indeed IMO government regulations are what have prices so out of wack.

By the way enjoy your stay in an American Hostpital when you get
"Termanal" brain cancer don't worry though we will get you patched up.

Why will I go to an American hospital when Canada has some of the best cancer treatment facilities in the world... And it's FREE!!!

I do amit, there are long wait times for non-lifethreatining injuries/sicknesses. I once had to wait 6 hours in the ER with a broken arm, but when I was finnished, I never had to pay a cent!!! And I had no problem letting people with more serious injuries go ahead of me.

And I think it's fucked that your country spends more money killing people than my country does giving people free health care.

What about the poor in your country or those with no insurance. I think that it is more unconstitutional that people can't get the care they need because of their financial situation. Wouldn't you want some of your money to go and help someone who can't afford it. That to me is what a country is all about.

And what about all those people with insurance but are denied care because their HMO gives some bullshit excuse about a pre-existing condition. Private insurance companies where first started by Nixon, and he thought they were a great idea because they can maximize profits by giving people less care. Here's a quick link you should read. http://www.stripersonline.com/surfta...d.php?t=535664

I'm not a communist, but I do have alot of socialistic values. Schooling (up to college) in your country is socialized, so is the police, fireservice, and postoffice. Is it so bad?

When it comes to health, everyone should have the care they need without worrying about how they are going to pay for it. I don't expect you guys down there to understand, it is something you have to grow up around to appreciate it.

Trust me, Universal Health Care is the only way to go.

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Overall, according to a study published in Lancet Oncology last year, five-year cancer survival rates are higher in the U.S. than those in Canada. Based on data from the Joint Canada/U.S. Survey of Health (done by Statistics Canada and the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics), Americans have greater access to preventive screening tests and have higher treatment rates for chronic illnesses. No wonder: To limit the growth in health spending, governments restrict the supply of health care by rationing it through waiting. The same survey data show, as June and Paul O'Neill note in a paper published in 2007 in the Forum for Health Economics & Policy, that the poor under socialized medicine seem to be less healthy relative to the nonpoor than their American counterparts.
Ironically, as the U.S. is on the verge of rushing toward government health care, Canada is reforming its system in the opposite direction. In 2005, Canada's supreme court struck down key laws in Quebec that established a government monopoly of health services. Claude Castonguay, who headed the Quebec government commission that recommended the creation of its public health-care system in the 1960s, also has second thoughts. Last year, after completing another review, he declared the system in "crisis" and suggested a massive expansion of private services -- even advocating that public hospitals rent facilities to physicians in off-hours.

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You haven't countered nothing, because the points you made are not valid, you are basing your counter on information you don't understand, regardless the accuracy of the information, because it does not state what you are saying.. (Brazko)

Whats up CrackerJax,

You make some very valid points, especially on the waiting stats, and I am not saying that Canada's health care system is complete. There is still alot that we can improve on. I commend you on the research you have done, I like how you get hard facts before you discus issues. The wait times in Canada are usually anywhere from a couple of weeks to several months on a variety of tests and procedures. With what I have experienced so far in my life that anything life threatining gets treated right away.

As for our government wanting to go private. That campain is being run by the conservitive party and the french nationalists in our country. The reason why we don't have a private system is because our people will never allow it. The biggest problem with our system is that durring the last 20 years there has been a large increase of immigrants to Canada. Not to say anything bad about immigrants, but too many at once. Basically, my health care was paid for by my parents, but because there are so many new-canadians our system hasn't been able to catch up. Sociallized medicine does work, I've seen it. There are some advantages to the American system in that if you have money you don't have to worry about care.

That study from Paul O'neill doesn't compare it to Canada's system, but just a general sociallized system. Plus, the poor in the US have to stay healthy because they can't afford treatment. Most of the time they are not included in studies because they don't seek treatment. Plus, Paul O'neill is a Bush person, he shouldn't be trusted (Ok former Bush person but a shit lepoard can't change its shit spots, HAHA).

There is alot of room for improvment in both systems, but from living in Canada my whole life and growing up with sociallized medicine, our system seems more humain. Everyone is covered and no one is left in the dark.

I am intrested however in two-teir health care where a seperate system is set up where the rich can pay for procedures and tests instantly at a price comparable to the States, and the money made is used to buy more equipment and offer more resources to the public system which will cut the overall wait.

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The USA also has about 20 times ur population and yet our GDP is certainly not 20 times that of Canada. There is a disparity which works against a social system in the USA.

Two other points that just won't go away...

1.) The US govt. has a terrible track record at this sort of thing. The numbers quickly go into the red and never come out.

2.) Mandated health care is blatantly unconstitutional. We will go through all of this nonsense, wasting time and money on something which should surely get knocked down by the Supreme Court.


The idea that Obama is going to cut waste in medicare with the health care bill is flawed. He doesn't need a health care bill to do that. Half truth.

The doctors absolutely hate this idea of socialized medicine. They don't want it.

Obama is now trying to make health care a crisis, but the ppl aren't buying it. Because there is no crisis. There is no need to rush into this. The idea that Obama is now shopping for a bill, ANY bill smacks of needing something passed, no matter how badly written. This seems to indicate that a real fix is not the goal.

If we can pull the govt. and lawyers out of the doctors offices, much of the costs would evaporate. Obama doesn't want to talk about any of that. It's in the interest of the govt. to keep medical costs high, until they can take over.

The whole mess is rotten..... and unconstitutional.

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You haven't countered nothing, because the points you made are not valid, you are basing your counter on information you don't understand, regardless the accuracy of the information, because it does not state what you are saying.. (Brazko)

Some of these things I have read here are crazy, and base on nothing but fear. We have more rationed health care in the US than anyone. it is just rationed by the insurance companies, who by law (based one them being publically traded companies) have only one interest, there Stock Holders. Looks at the stats, there are states were insurance companies have over a 50% 1st application denial rate. The Idea that a gov. would be worse is totaly unfounded. I am still waiting for a fear mongering conservatives to stand up for the abolishment of Medicare or privatization the VA. They can't they would get distroyed, because these single payer goverment run socialist plans (that the Bush administration added to) are actually the best plans in the US (that and some of the state plans for children) they can actually care about better health rather topping there profits from the last Qtr, so the stockholders are happy.