Can anyone REALLY say anything bad about Fox News at this point?

Originally Posted by CrackerJax

No one is dying for lack of care in the US. You would have to go to Mexico,Canada, EU, Africa,Asia for that....

..So let me get this straight.. no one is dying from lack of health care in the USA but they are in Canada?? i think ur a bit off their buddy. Canadian health care at the moment is beyond what Obama could even wish for. The difference is we have to pay a certain amount in taxes and we all reap the benefits rather than independantly paying for your health care like in the states. Im a conservative but i gotta say i love canadian health care (Although their are many flawes). the service is great. If Obama and any other liberal panty waist had brains theyd know that theyd be saving billions in dollars just by covering for the 40 mill or so that dont have health care rather than to create a new inefficient and expensive public health care plan where everyone is covered thru the taxes they pay. the problem here ofcourse is that instead of having the freedom to take care of yourself, you would now be forced into paying for others free ride. while you may not even need to use the health services you still have to pay for those who dont have enough initiative to do something with their lives and make some money to support themselves.

theirs my daily rant.. im outtie

Originally Posted by doobnVA

FYI: Most, if not all states require you to carry auto insurance. Why? You answered that yourself. Driving a car isn't a "right" either, but you seem to be okay with everyone having auto insurance...because YOUR rates would be higher if they didn't. So, same thing applies to health care, right?

Not to be argumentative, however your example isn't apples to apples. The difference being that the state only "requires" you to have car insurance "IF" you choose to drive a car. Try to take a guess how many people in large metro areas don't pay for car insurance because they don't drive.

Quite a difference between that and forcing individuals to purchase medical coverage simply because they exist. It's a ludicrous argument for the government mandating that which it has "NO" Constitutional authority to mandate. That's it, period, end of debate... you can goosestep and Sig Heil to the beat of the statist drums all you like, but you aren't ever going to convince rational thinking, freedom loving individuals that it should be allowed.

How are we suppose to afford UHC? We have a budget deficit of, what, 2 trillion, for 2010? An $11 trillion public debt. 60 trillion in unfunded liabilities, the majority of which comes from medicare costs.

When do we actually stop going further into debt, and start paying it off? Do people just think we can borrow and spend forever? I think avoiding the economic catastrophe we are headed toward should be our #1 priority at this point. We should be balancing the budget, not adding to the deficit.

Originally Posted by hom36rown

How are we suppose to afford UHC?

We take the money we're currently sinking into a system that doesn't cover everyone, and make it work more efficiently so everyone is covered. The reason health care is so expensive is because the insurance industry coupled with those who are uninsured are driving the costs up for everyone else! You've got an insurance industry that's only in it for the money and doesn't really care whether you get the treatment you need if it's going to mean they have to spend a penny.

In countries with UHC, expenditures per person are MUCH lower than what we currently spend, and we don't even cover everyone!

Anyway, that's irrelevant because there's no "universal" health care in the reform bill.

Originally Posted by MuyLocoNC

Not to be argumentative, however your example isn't apples to apples.

It wasn't my example. CrackerJax was the one who compared health insurance to auto insurance.

Originally Posted by doobnVA

We take the money we're currently sinking into a system that doesn't cover everyone, and make it work more efficiently so everyone is covered. The reason health care is so expensive is because the insurance industry coupled with those who are uninsured are driving the costs up for everyone else! You've got an insurance industry that's only in it for the money and doesn't really care whether you get the treatment you need if it's going to mean they have to spend a penny.

In countries with UHC, expenditures per person are MUCH lower than what we currently spend, and we don't even cover everyone!

Anyway, that's irrelevant because there's no "universal" health care in the reform bill.

There is not enough money in the system. Medicare was going broke as it is. Any legislation is undoubtedly going to cost us more money, money we do not have.

You know what really cracks me up? The fact that Obama keeps saying that the health care plan won't cost a dime. He claims that the entire program can be paid for by eliminating waste, fraud and abuse from Social Security and Medicare. Hey, Obama ... wake up! Social Security and Medicare are GOVERNMENT programs. If there is that much abuse in those two programs, what can we expect of a 1.5 TRILLION government medical system?

Is Obama really that naive, or is he just a totalitarian armed with a beautiful smile?

Originally Posted by hom36rown

There is not enough money in the system. Medicare was going broke as it is. Any legislation is undoubtedly going to cost us more money, money we do not have.

Yes, there is enough money. The money we are ALREADY spending on a health care system that is wasteful and doesn't cover everyone. Why is medicare going broke? Because our health care system is inefficient. Health care costs keep rising, but our salaries and payroll tax rates stay the same. Add to that the fact that unemployment is rising, which means less people paying those taxes that fund Medicare.

Per person, the US already spends in the neighborhood of $7000 on health care compared to about half that in countries with "universal" health care systems.

How do they do it without excessive tax burdens on their citizens? They simply let their health care systems operate on a deficit. Here, we allow the citizens to shoulder the financial burden instead of the government. We spend more money killing people than we do taking care of our own citizens.