Obama does it again Big brother fines - Page 8

TreesOfLife · #71 07-07-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilthyFletch

well fuck me with a broom stick medicine nailed it down and that scares the hell out of me

Ditto on that one.

TheBrutalTruth · #72 07-07-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doobnVA

You DO realize that "a republican form of government" simply means that NO state will be established as a monarchy, right?

the definition of democracy, from Merriam-Webster

–noun, plural -cies. 1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system. 2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies. 3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges. 4. political or social equality; democratic spirit. 5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

The definition of republic, from the same source:

–noun 1. a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them. 2. any body of persons viewed as a commonwealth. 3. a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state. 4. (initial capital letter

) any of the five periods of republican government in France. Compare First Republic, Second Republic, Third Republic, Fourth Republic, Fifth Republic. 5. (initial capital letter, italics

) a philosophical dialogue (4th century b.c.) by Plato dealing with the composition and structure of the ideal state.

You're acting as if the US can only be one or the other, when in fact, the US is BOTH a republic AND a democracy, because those two words are SYNONYMS for one another (they mean essentially the same thing).

Republic and Democracy are not synonyms and the definition given by Merriam-Webster is actually incorrect.

First there is the small fact that the proper term for the United States is a Federal (Centralized Government) Democratic (Voting) Republic (Rule by Law).

A better way of putting it would be to say that the United States has a centralized government (Federal) that has officers elected by a representative popular vote (Democratic) that then determine what laws and statutes are put in place (Republic.)

There is a large difference between a Democracy and a Republic, to ignore this difference is an attempt to say that the Democracy of Athens and the Republic of Rome were essentially the same, despite the overwhelming differences between the two (ignoring the more obvious fact that Athens was a Direct Democracy where as Rome (in addition to it being a Republic) was an Indirect Democracy.)

Democratic and Republic are not synonyms.

Constitutional (like Constitutional Monarchy) and Republic on the other hand are fairly close to being synonyms.

ViRedd · #73 07-08-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrh72582

So because medicine man doesn't like Obama, every other liberal must not like him either? Logical fallacy.

I consider myself a liberal because I am free from all political constraints. Liberal literally means freed. I am free. It means NOTHING else. That being said, I don't like Obama. But I'm not going to sit on here and whine like a little bitch all day, making shit up to prove that I am better than those who support him. Belittling does not prove a point.

What's truly amazing is that someone with your educational credentials honestly believes that the modern political definition of the term "liberal" is someone who stands for freedom.

Go back to the turn of the 20th Century, around 1890 or so, and you'll find that the "Progressives" commandeered the term "liberal" in order to cover up their true intentions.

Yes, the term "liberal" USED to stand for a person who favors a small central government with the power to the states, free minds, free markets and individual liberty. These people were known as Jeffersonian Liberals. Today, they are known as conservatives and/or libertarians.

Today, the modern liberals are now reverting back to calling themselves "Progressives" again. In fact, Hillary Clinton recently admitted this openly.

Modern liberals, Progressives if you will, stand for central government control over every aspect of our lives. There is nothing they don't want to regulate and or tax. Hardly a prescription for liberty, my friend.

So, before you say that you are "liberal," perhaps you should define your terms.

Vi

jrh72582 · #74 07-08-2009, 03:31 PM

[QUOTE=ViRedd;2712949In fact, Hillary Clinton recently admitted this openly.[/QUOTE]

I don't subscribe to her definition or her connotations. And when did Hilary become an authority on etymology?

FilthyFletch · #75 07-08-2009, 04:04 PM

it was never suggested that government insurance was mandatory. anyone can opt for private insurance.

with that said i disagree with the idea of mandatory personal health insurance. if someone wants to f*** themself by not being covered than so be it. i cant stand how they attempt to justify it by comparing it to auto insurance. such a ridiculous leap in logic since the whole reason auto insurance is mandatory is liability coverage.

You kinda misunderstood. This policy would make those who cant afford insurnace or are covered by a company to have to buy the governement insurenece at a discount of $300-to 4400 a month for an indiviual with no kids unmarried. i cant afford bluecross blue shild now so saying just pay 3-4 hundred or get fined or put into jail doesnt help shit. If I had that moeny Id buy private insurance so how do I find that money for Obama if I cant find it for anyone else??? I can afford maybe $75 a month for full iunsurance and that would strap me to the fullest as I am working 100 plus hours a week already and just above water with little surplus. I dont go out and I dont get vactions and I dont do entertainment so the solution to me not being able to afford health insurance is to fine me or put me in jail..Thumbs up great plan.. I dont qualify for any aide health programs so i just do it old scholl way "I walk it off" til Im better.

ViRedd · #76 07-08-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrh72582

I don't subscribe to her definition or her connotations. And when did Hilary become an authority on etymology?

Ummm, hummm ... and Hillary really wasn't the point of my post, now was she?

Come on professor, don't be dishonest.

Vi

jrh72582 · #77 07-08-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViRedd

Ummm, hummm ... and Hillary really wasn't the point of my post, now was she?

Come on professor, don't be dishonest.

Vi

Look Vi, I merely commented on the etymology and direct transliterative meaning of the word. When I refer to myself as a liberal, I mean to say that I'm free of all binding constraints. I vote all over the place. No party owns me.

So LIBERAL, from the Latin liberos = free

Conservative, on the other hand, comes from the latin 'con', meaning within and 'servo' meaning to serve. So the direct meaning of a conservative is one who serves within a boundary, aka a slave.

I was, and am, merely giving information. You don't have to accept it.

And I do understand that these terms have different meanings in the political arena, but I do not base my definitions on the bastardized political manifestations. Politics fucks everything up. It will NOT take my language from me as well.

Barnard · #78 07-08-2009, 05:05 PM

Remember we would never would of had Ronald Regan without Jimbo Carter. Maybe there is still hope.

TheBrutalTruth · #79 07-08-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilthyFletch

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.

Who was running their mouth about there not being fines?

#80 07-09-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrutalTruth

Who was running their mouth about there not being fines?

Noob please read more than what your professors put in front of you to read, try the Federalist Papers, try a dictionary that was written with the meaning of the words when they were written. For God's sake and the sake of our REPUBLIC which is not mob rule and you will begin to understand the concept of how our country was founded. Democracies have never worked and can never work because of the nature of people, once they learn they can obtain a free lunch via the ballot box the country is doomed, period. Read history, study history and please if your college taught you anything of value I hope it taught you how to learn, to research and how to look at competing sides of an issue. Now for your dictionary try reading a few dictionaries published at the time of the writing of the words you want to examine, you will find that a the two forms of government are not the same.
Government school is the fastest way known to man for us to become Marxist or at the very least socialists. Read Karl Marx and see what he has to say about government education. Everyone better wake up soon because as of now 51% of the people pay no income tax and they will continue to vote for the people willing to give them more, once that happens the country is finished, period. Happy with Obama, not happy either get involved for a solution or do what I did, I got my assets out of the country along with myself while I still had what I worked for all my life.
Thank God we are a REPUBLIC.

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