Poor poor Israel - Page 3

ruderalis88 · #21 06-28-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChChoda

Not so fast...my turn. What proof do you have that Israel even exists? Have you ever personally been there? Will you at least concede the possibility that the pictures and videos we have been shown could have been filmed on a Hollywood sound stage, or on the moon for that matter?

Any of you skeptics ever send money to the Palestinian cause? Have you been to the place? And it doesn't count if you took an "overnight flight" or you were "clouded in" en route. How do you know, for sure, that it isn't actually a Zionist plot to extort money from liberals?...

oh fine, last one and i'm going to bed.

no i've never been to Israel, i would like to (because i want to see the whole world) but if you get an israeli stamp on your passport you'e pretty much never able to enter any arab state after that. even when you get a new passport they still know you were there. as a westerner, i'd prefer not to seem disrespectful to the arab communities who have hosted so kindly myself and members of my family in the past. I have looked at, seen with my own eyes, the disputed area from across the Syrian, Egyptian, and Lebanese borders. I have heard, first hand, the painful stories of death and segregation from real live palestinian people. My heart bleeds for them. These are my reasons for believing it all exists and is a genuine cause.

I donate what i can to the Palestinian cause on a regular basis, and am rarely not wearing some sort of identification with the cause, either one of two "free palestine" bracelets which i own or an earring in the shape of palestine 1947 with their flag on it. Apart from when i am at work where i'm not allowed to wear any jewelley or non-uniform items. If i lose my job, i won't be able to donate, so i say temporarily not identifying with what is (in my surroundings) a fairly risquee cause is the lesser of two evils.

ChChoda · #22 06-28-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruderalis88

oh fine, last one and i'm going to bed.

no i've never been to Israel, i would like to (because i want to see the whole world) but if you get an israeli stamp on your passport you'e pretty much never able to enter any arab state after that. even when you get a new passport they still know you were there. as a westerner, i'd prefer not to seem disrespectful to the arab communities who have hosted so kindly myself and members of my family in the past. I have looked at, seen with my own eyes, the disputed area from across the Syrian, Egyptian, and Lebanese borders. I have heard, first hand, the painful stories of death and segregation from real live palestinian people. My heart bleeds for them. These are my reasons for believing it all exists and is a genuine cause.

I donate what i can to the Palestinian cause on a regular basis, and am rarely not wearing some sort of identification with the cause, either one of two "free palestine" bracelets which i own or an earring in the shape of palestine 1947 with their flag on it. Apart from when i am at work where i'm not allowed to wear any jewelley or non-uniform items. If i lose my job, i won't be able to donate, so i say temporarily not identifying with what is (in my surroundings) a fairly risquee cause is the lesser of two evils.

And I believe in freedom for freedom loving peoples. That is why I side with Israel.

bicycle racer · #23 06-28-2009, 08:37 PM

well spoken on many points ruderalis88+rep

natrone23 · #24 06-28-2009, 09:08 PM

A bunch of Europeans(jews) come over on boats and tell the people(palestinians) who live the Holyland hey this is my land now because my ancestors lived here 2,000 years ago and "god' promised me your land.

Lets not get into the huge amount of fake artifacts that Israelis have been caught peddling trying to links themselves with the historical holyland http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Culture/4685.htm

calibob · #25 06-28-2009, 10:10 PM

Boy that's some theory, something like a bunch of Europeans coming to America and telling the Indians basically the same thing.

Antidisestablishmentarian · #26 06-28-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiEBE420

lets move em all to texas.

No thanks. We are happy with our Mexicans, and Kurds.

bicycle racer · #27 06-29-2009, 08:46 AM

israel as i have said is simply the case of the victim turning into the victimizer and using the atrocities of the past as an excuse to commit atrocities in the present 2 wrongs dont make a right.

bicycle racer · #28 06-29-2009, 08:49 AM

kurds in texas huh im in la so have pretty much run into people from all over the world of all races and ethnic backgrounds but i have never met someone whos kurdish. is there a kurdish community in texas?

TheBrutalTruth · #29 06-29-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruderalis88

it's not about Jews and Muslims (Judaism is an older religion than Islam, but the religious beliefs of ancient Egypt/Greece/Rome are even older - doesn't make them much more or less correct). It should not be about religion, but about nationality. It is about Israel bullying the surrounding Arab nations. Many would agree when i say that Israel was allowed to be created because of a great feeling of guilt by the international community over the treatment the Jewish people had been subjected to throughout the Second World War. The US are not solely to blame, although they were most certainly involved; every UN country in 1948 had a hand in it too.

This was followed by a bit of this and a bit of that, but the end word must be that Palestine is now essentially the world's largest open air prison. The people of Palestine DO NOT DESERVE the treatment they receive. Israel's government needs to be held to account for its terrible crimes but I doubt that will happen any time soon. It is a sad fact, but Muslims are the new Jews in terms of racism and unfair international opinion.

Yasser Arafat once said "I come bearing the olive branch of peace in one hand, and in the other a machine gun. Do not allow me to drop the olive branch"
It was the fault of the Israeli government that violence became the main language spoken between the two nations.

And Jordan has really very little to do with it. Just as Iraq has really very little to do with Iran and vice versa. Just as Spain has really very little to do with France.

Good thread medicineman.

Actually neither Greece nor Rome have a longer history than the Jewish. Their history is more or less tracked back over 5,000 years, as can be verified by their calendar. It is quite possible that their beliefs in monotheism track back longer than that, though there is also the possiblity that they borrowed monotheism from the Zoroastrianism of abylon.

Though their religion is not really in debate. Their right to Israel is, and in that case, as it was through the intervention of Rome that they fled their land it is only fitting that what was once, quite possibly, a secessor to the Roman Empire (Britain) should use its power to restore them to their proper lands.

Here's a simple way to look at it. As long as you pay your property taxes it does not matter if you leave your land, it will still be your land. To hold that a people that were driven from their land by outside forces no longer has claim to their land is asinine, and absurd. By your logic New Orleans should have become open for any one that wanted to move there the moment its inhabitants sought refuge outside of the city.

Furthermore, the United States, in its support of Israel is perhaps showing that we have learned from the mistakes of our past and our treatment of the Amerindians. It can only be held up as supremely ironic (and stupid) that we, the inhabitants of a stolen land ourselves, believe we have any moral prerogative to dictate what Israel must, or must not, do.

Besides, after 9-11 who really cares what the Middle East thinks.

bicycle racer · #30 06-29-2009, 09:57 AM

i wonder if 9/11 would have happened at all if we did not support israels unjust acts and holier than though attitudes regarding anything they do. they look at the palestinians as sub human the same as the nazis saw them quite a contradiction on there part. a suicide bombers who kills civilians is a terrorist but when a rocket fired from an apache by an israeli soldier kills a family its considered somehow different tell that to the people being killed its all the same. as long as israel holds palestinian lifes as less worthy than there own there going to have problems and if we support there actions it will cause the us more problems also.

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