Okay, so I just watched this video and it pretty much shows obama in front of the constitution saying that he is wanting the abillity to put somone in custody before they can commit a crime for up to 10 years. How will this effect smokers and growers? Check the video out here

http://linkbee.com/obamapolitics



grr i f'ed up the title :/ imprisonment

Remember If you grow or buy pot your a terrorist.

Well I am not sure if that is true or not, I know the gov has referred to buying pot as giving money to terrorist. If this really does go down, cops will be able to take you in under their suspicion and hold you for quite some time, obama refers to 10 years. Write your senators, this shit cant go down.

Yeah Ilkhan, there is always that. They can (and will) charge us as terrorists with the PATRIOT act. Drugs have already been put on the list of things that threaten National Security. I remember when they "shot that piece" of legislature through congress at a record speed of 45 days!!! The very few who even questioned it were assured that the PATRIOT act would NEVER be used as a tool to be used on Americans, only foreign nationals. OKIE DOKIE then. Within a year, they were using it's expanded law enforcement powers to attack gangs, and within another 6 mos, they were using it to get internet predators. Now, I really do not have a problem with those noble efforts, gangs and pervs are a bad thing, but I feel that I have ALREADY GIVEN UP way to many "civil liberties" in the name of civil security. The unfortunate fact is that the constitution that protects OUR rights, also protect the accused. Notice I said accused, not the criminal. I feel for law enforcement. Their hands are tied. But the only way we are gonna reduce crime in any meaningful way will be to shit can the constitution. The PATRIOT act effectively nullifies the important aspects of our "constitution and bill of rights". I don't know about YOU, but I cherish MY rights, and will not give up one more in the name of "officer safety" or the common good. If our Government is engaged in a war on drugs, then in MY eyes, that makes THEM the enemy combatants and terrorists if they come at me armed. It's a losing proposition, to be sure, but one I am OK with. It's an ego thing.

mattman, Obama did not invent this concept. Obama did not invent this war. Obama inherited the current situation from quite possibly a madman.
The guy has been in office for 6 fucking months. The dude is trying to do things differently from the way things were done that got us here in the first place. Give him a break. Now in 3 years, by all means, let's review him. Even Bush took 2 terms to completely fuck us.

The PATRIOT act, and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance act. It's dry as hell reading, but it's the scariest reading I've done in my life. Everyone should read it. Oh they tell us it's anther tool in the war chest against terror, but in reality, what applies to terrorists can be applied to us for "engaging in terroristic activity". Whats good for the goose....

That being said, I thought we were against terrorism? Rules concerning civil rights go out the window when you become a combatant. You pick up a weapon in time of war, with the idea of attacking the US or US troops, and if you're lucky you'll become a prisoner of war, who according to the Geneva convention must be afforded BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS (Adequate food, shelter, medical care, humane treatment, etc.) Furthermore, a POW may be held until the cessation of hostilities, which means if the war goes on for 12 years.... well you can guess. To me, if I capture a guy who speaks farsi or arabic who has been shooting at me all morning (granted, I'm in HIS villiage), I can rest pretty well with the idea that he's anti american. During war, valid armies are to wear a distinguishing uniform to reduce civilian casualties. The Viet Cong did not, and the Iraqis are not. You cannot tell who is gonna shoot you until that AK muzzle comes up and stops at your chest height, or you see a momentary bright flash outside the car. Someone shoots at me, and the odds of them becoming a POW drop dramatically. If they do get captured, fuck 'em. They were SHOOTING at me for christs sake.
To me, THATS what Obama was saying. You cant just release an enemy combatant to come back at you when you least expect it. Even the Bible is riddled with that very dilemma faced by Joshua and Gideon when taking Caanan. They didn't have the time for POW's tho, and of course they did not want to worry about their rear flank, so they just massacred every man, woman, and child. No living thing left. Now which option is inhumane? It's fucking WAR! It aint supposed to be neat and civil and pretty. It's supposed to be so horrific that we shouldn't even contemplate it! Are you so willing to forgive a guy who just tried to put a bullet in your head, even if he promises to stop? That's what Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha and Baha U'llah would have us do. So I ask you, does religion and belief REALLY come into play here?
Of course, we all know how the PATRIOT act was used against our citizens within days, so abuse of power is rife in the govt. Give 'em an inch....
Our Constitution guarantees US CITIZENS the rights outlined in the bill of rights. US CITIZENS, NOT illegal aliens, not those here on visa, not anybody except US CITIZENS!! Why then are we crying about the civil rights of the terrorist suspects? (or the poor illegal aliens) That's why we call it the "United States Constitution and bill of rights" and not the constitution of the planet earth and who ever else might be out there.
This whole debacle of "indefinite detention" has already been in the news, and has been hashed to death back in the '80s during and after the Mariel boat lift and the millions of Cuban criminals and psychopaths Castro sent us along with the rest of the refugees. The vast majority were incarcerated in detention camps based in US Federal prisons. And all were (some still are) held without charges, and without an end in sight. Was this wrong? If you were an innocent Marielito, yes. But what about the safety and well being of the American citizenry? HOW do we separate the innocents from the criminals when very few people even had the basic citizenship or identification paperwork required for entry into the US?(and required by any other country?) I'm sorry, but until we know who each one is, and can determine thier background, they stay incarcerated, and separate from our already established citizenry. Or there is always a free ticket home? I don't want even the risk of an ADDED criminal element or worse on the streets to harm me or mine. We got enough already.

Every one of them in Guantanamo is being held on terrorism charges, or for putting themselves in a position to be accused. I know our Gov't lies (really, they do) and we cant trust 'em, but I truly believe that there are certain circumstances that warrant the "quarantine" of those who would destroy us as a nation, and keep them quarantined until such time as they are either convicted or cleared. They should be afforded a competent attorney for defense and be given every opportunity to tell their side. If we can't possibly afford each of them a trial, then the system is a sham, and needs to be dismantled.
OR... we could pull a Stalin and just take 'em out back and shoot them.

(We're sorry, really we do beleive in human rights, but right now we just can't afford to give you a trial, so we're just gonna shoot you for GP. Nothing personal.)

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You can lead a Horticulture....But you can't make her think!!!!

All the terrorists in the world could not destroy the USA.

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It is far easier to ignorantly control others than it is to wisely control yourself.

I fixed your thread title... gonna watch the vid in a minute

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speaks louder than words.
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I beg to differ, they have already destroyed the country I grew up in. Because of the terror attacks (OK, Mostly because of the attacks) our Bill of Rights has been diluted to the point of paying lip service to the concept.

Destroy the brick and mortar country? It could happen, too. Thats why we are so friggin' adamant about nuclear proliferation. 10 or 15 strategically detonated dirty b o m b s, would come pretty close. Of course, to my knowledge, we've been able to track via satellite fissionable material in critical mass quantity for years. Who knows? Why then are there literally tons of fissionable material just "missing" here in the US? We have an estimate of over half that again missing in Russia and other nuclear countries. It just isn't THAT hard to come up with a WMD, and it won't take an army to get us, just a few determined souls. And this IS happening. This is not just the govt being alarmists this time.

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You can lead a Horticulture....But you can't make her think!!!!

to thelastpirate
Look man, this guy is gonna get us killed and turn try to turn into socalists
there's something happinin here
what it is aint exactly clear
theres a man with a gun over there
tellin me i got to beware

i think it's time we stop, children
what's that sound
everybody look what's goin down

there's battle lines being drawn
nobody's right if everybody's wrong
young people speakin there minds
getting so much resistance far behind

it's time we stop,
hey what's that sound
everybody look what's goin down

what a field day for the heat
a thousand people in the street
singin songs that they carry inside
mostly say hurray for our side

it's time we stop,
hey what's that sound
everybody look what's goin down

there are lawyer strikes deep
into your life it will creep
it starts when your always afraid
step out of line the man come and take you away

you better stop
hey what's that sound
everybody look what's going down

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USMC, U want me on that WALL, yeah thats us liberating Kuwait..Just another day in the Glorious Marine Corps

Obama did not decieve anyone...he promised change. He'll bring MUCH change you'll see just show patience - it's a virtue. Keep in mind he never said EXACTLY what that change would be. I think I'm begining to see what's coming how about you?

I Guess if you believe only "terrorists" were involved.

__________________
It is far easier to ignorantly control others than it is to wisely control yourself.