VI, here's some economics for ya.

medicineman · #1 07-24-2007, 12:06 PM

ECONOMIC THEORYhttp://http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1631
The members of the American economics profession, as Arnold contended, performed a vital practical role in maintaining this unique system of corporate socialism American style. It was their role to prevent the American public from achieving a correct understanding of the actual workings of the American economic system. Economists instead were assigned the task to dispense priestly blessings that would allow business to operate independent of damaging political manipulation. They accomplished this task by means of their message of 'laissez faire religion, based on a conception of a society composed of competing individuals.' However false as a description of the actual U.S. economy, this vision in the mind of the American public was in practice 'transferred automatically to industrial organizations with nation-wide power and dictatorial forms of government.' Even though the arguments of economists were misleading and largely fictional, the practical -- and beneficial -- result of their deception was to throw a 'mantle of protection ... over corporate government' from various forms of outside interference. Admittedly, as the economic 'symbolism got farther and farther from reality, it required more and more ceremony to keep it up.' But as long as this arrangement worked and there could be maintained 'the little pictures in the back of the head of the ordinary man,' the effect was salutary -- 'the great [corporate] organization was secure in its freedom and independence.' It was this very freedom and independence of business professionals to pursue the correct scientific answer -- the efficient answer -- on which the economic progress of the United States depended. -- Unfortunately, they fell way short of their goals, and answers are left un-answered. The American public is awakening from their long slumber and demanding answers from the politicians that have none. The outcome of all this greed and deception is yet to be revealed, but rest assured, there are some greivances to be paid. The collusion between Government and Business is becoming public knowledge and the American public will not stand idly by forever.Worldwatch Briefing: Sixteen Dimensions of the Population Problem | Worldwatch Institute http://http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1631

ViRedd · #2 07-24-2007, 12:24 PM

Link, please.

Vi

Dankdude · #3 07-24-2007, 06:14 PM

Vi there are 3 links in the first post.

7xstall · #4 07-25-2007, 11:37 AM

med, those links go to some article about controlling the world's population. is that what you meant to do?

i like the momentum in the original post, kind of points toward everything i've been saying all my life about intertwining the government and private sectors... whenever a politician says they want to fix something it will wind up really broken!

you be the bridge troll (deceptive corps) and i'll point all the signs to your bridge (gov regs/laws), then we can be rich bastard thieves together...but let's just call it regulation or oversight ...shhhhh! don't let the little people hear.

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ViRedd · #5 07-25-2007, 11:53 AM

[quote=7xstall;214632]med, those links go to some article about controlling the world's population. is that what you meant to d

i like the momentum in the original post, kind of points toward everything i've been saying all my life about intertwining the government and private sectors... whenever a politician says they want to fix something it will wind up really broken!

you be the bridge troll (deceptive corps) and i'll point all the signs to your bridge (gov regs/laws), then we can be rich bastard thieves together...but let's just call it regulation or oversight ...shhhhh! don't let the little people hear. quote]

Excellent comments, 7x.

Here's a great example: About thirty years ago, the federal government placed a heavy tariff on imported sugar as a price support for our domestic sugar beet growers. That drove the price of sugar sold here domestically through the roof. The food processors had to find something else to sweeten their products in order to maintain their profit margins. So ... they had some Japanese chemists go to work on the project. The result? High Fructose Corn Syrup. The unintended consequences? HFCS suppresses the insulin level in humans and doesn't allow the brain to produce the chemical that tells the brain that the body is "full." The end result is, we have a "growing" problem. The average American, in effect, drinks/eats 58 gallons of HFCS each year. This has caused our "epidemic" of obesity and Type-2 diabetes. So, the government policy of high tariffs on sugar to protect the corporations that produce sugar are actually killing us without our knowledge.

Want to lose tons of weight and look/feel your best? Read every food label and omit High Fructose Corn Syrup and regular Corn Syrup from your diet for good. Once you start reading the labels, you're going to be amazed how many of our foods contain HFCS. The food processors use it as a preservative as well.

Vi

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7xstall · #6 07-25-2007, 12:42 PM

thank you, Vi. i did not know the history of HFCS but i couldn't agree more, market manipulations are like man made dams, levees, etc.. they will be breeched or fail and as we well know, the fertile soils surrounding the market rivers are inhabited by everything human: health, happiness, wisdom, everything. when you have a breech you lose valuable resources, in this case health.

am i saying that commerce = humanity? no, in fact i'm one of the most un-materialistic people you would ever meet, i'm simply pointing out that to be human is to have human needs, needs that markets quench.

subsidies/tariffs are actually a synthetic market themselves, created by pillaging resources from other natural markets. there is so much that is criminal in our system.

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medicineman · #7 07-25-2007, 02:11 PM

7X says: there is so much that is criminal in our system.
And here we agree again, wow, I'm feeling faint. Is the light coming on, have all my postings actually had an effect on your opinions. We may differ on some things, but on the criminality of our government and the collusion of government and industry, it seems we have parallel views. BTW, I am an independent, not a "lefty". I just believe in people over governments, sort of like the founding fathers planned it. If the people want universal healthcare, then it is up to the government to figure out how to give it to them in the most expedient way. IE the government should work for the people. Is the government corrupt? Yes. Are corporations corrupt? Yes. Can we the people do something about it? Yes, I believe we can if we pull our heads out.

ViRedd · #8 07-25-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicineman

7X says: there is so much that is criminal in our system.
And here we agree again, wow, I'm feeling faint. Is the light coming on, have all my postings actually had an effect on your opinions. We may differ on some things, but on the criminality of our government and the collusion of government and industry, it seems we have parallel views. BTW, I am an independent, not a "lefty". I just believe in people over governments, sort of like the founding fathers planned it. If the people want universal healthcare, then it is up to the government to figure out how to give it to them in the most expedient way. IE the government should work for the people. Is the government corrupt? Yes. Are corporations corrupt? Yes. Can we the people do something about it? Yes, I believe we can if we pull our heads out.

Med ...

I think most of us would agree that the present system is corrupt. I've said many times here in the forum that the only Republican I voted for in the last election was at the state level ... Tom McClintock.

Where we differ is in what is to replace our existing, corrupt system. To replace it with an even more intrusive system, as folks like you and Dank appear to want, namely more restrictive socialism, is nothing more than replacing the corruption we now have with an even more criminal enterprise.

What I would like to see, is a return to a true constitutional republic. The government is in almost every area of our lives. There is nothing they don't want to regulate. I don't want to live life in a Nanny State where all of my decisions are made for me. You may call it "compassion" ... I call it indentured servitude.

Vi

medicineman · #9 07-25-2007, 04:50 PM

I agree that there are way too many laws and regulations. Everytime someone commits an infraction or intrudes on someone elses turf, a new law or regulation is put in to effect. We need to dismantle many government programs, especially the ones that subsidize the wealthy business owners and corporations and farm conglomerates. Contrary to your beliefs, Most poor people want a hand up, not a hand out. In my many years of supervisory positions, I could count on one hand the number of slackers that worked for me. Most folks want to work and were proud of their accomplishments. I realize that in the different positions I supervised, the workers were paid very well (Union wages) in most cases and in my own business, I paid 2-3 dollars an Hr. above the prevailing wage and got the best help. You may have different outcomes at the minimum wage level, maybe that's because you can't survive and raise a family on minimum wage. when CEOs are takin home millions and paying the help minimum wages, there might be a morale problem. Maybe your line of work (Sales) had a high percentage of slackers and bozos, always seemed like that to me,~LOL~, but in my lines of work, people actually worked and made a tangible item, something they could look at and say, I made that. There are 3 hospitals, a dozen churches and a myriad of office buildings, strip malls and custom homes that have my name on them. I also built four banks, including the vaults, and my name is on the top of the list for vault intrusions, as I was the one with the blueprints that made it happen, all in your beloved Orange county Ca. I always wondered if I could get away with building a secret door into one of those vaults, but upon completion of the concrete pour, they X-ray those suckers. On one of my hospital jobs, I built a 700 ft long perch wall that zigged and zagged at all the corners, that came out within an 1/8 of an inch of true. They put 5 stories of glass on top of that wall and never had to alter one payne of glass. I aslo set 64 I beam footings within 1/8 of an inch on that job, but the proudest build I ever did was a Wells-Fargo bank in huntington beach, it had a cantilevered roof on the vault, a real tricky setup.

Resinman · #10 07-25-2007, 05:34 PM

Vi Redd

what you mention has merit,,,,but the one problem you fail to mention

Is the trickle down economy is leading USA to a non growth uneducated obese society,,,this happens when you let the corporations and banks run the country unchecked,,,,Look at the effects and causes of the first great depression,,,

you had to make laws,,,and socialize the big business greedy bullys,,,,because they would have bankrupt the USA,,,

wait a second,,,we are almost there

You would never allow the central bankers to allow the credit expansion industry,,,Debtor nation

resinman