Brainwashed

TheBrutalTruth · #1 05-04-2009, 04:39 PM

I probably should have rewritten it (it's disjointed) but I haven't the time.

Though I'll try summarizing it.

Republican/Democrat = Statist/Pro-Enslavement

Libertarian/Liberal (classic)/Conservative = Individualist/Pro-Liberty

Republicans and Democrats have disguised their Statist intentions by hiding under the ideals of Libertarianism/Liberalism and Conservatism, and then have corrupted the message being pushed by both (more freedom) to mean the opposite (more slavery.)

Quote:

Democrat/Republican = Retarded By : TheBrutalTruth (2009-05-04 18:16:4

So, apparently, because Conservatives believe in personal liberty, and in self-responsibility it means we must be for dictatorship. Apparently some where along the lines the Statists have managed to utterly confuse people as to what the different words mean.

We of course can only thank the media, and the general apathy of the populace for this.

First off, the entire polticial spectrum as imagined is horribly wrong. There is not a gap between Fascism and Socialism. Socialism is not Leftist, and Fascism is not Rightest.

The Political Spectrum does not go:
Socialism Democracy Republic Fascism Anarchy

It would not make any sense for it to place Fascism on the opposite side of Socialism. Both are Statist systems where everything is controlled by the government.

More importantly is the fact that Fascism would not fit with Anarchy. Anarchy is the absence of a State, whereas Fascism is an all powerful state.

The proper ordering is:
Socialism Fascism Democracy Republic GSO Anarchy

I had to add GSO, it stands for Government Service Organization or Governmetn Service Corporation. It represents a step above Anarchy where instead of having no government you have multiple governments in the form of subscription-based government.

Or you might have corporations that provide government services.

Such as Police Protection, Fire Protection, Contract Enforcement, Legal Representation, Waste Treatment, etc.

Such a system would occur between a Republic and Anarchy, because such a system would still need a frame work of laws that would govern the GSOs.

However, the above can be simplified even further:
Oligarchy, Majority, Law, Individual

Though even here it becomes obvious that Republic, as a form of government is distinct from the rest. A Republic (the United States for instance) represents a rule by law not a rule by an elect few (Oligarchy) or by the majority (Democracy) or by Individuals over themselves (Anarchy/GSOs.)

So:
Oligarchy, Majority, Individual

Republic

would probably be a better way to order it.

Though I am going to stop discussing exact forms of government and address the confusion created by the oligarchs.

As can be seen above Fascism and Socialism are forms of Oligarchy, or Rule by a few. In the case of both the Rulers are Bureaucrats or Sanctioned by the Bureaucrats.

So both are Statist.

Then there's Democracy which is Rule by People, but it is also typically Statist, relying upon the whims of an idiotic majority to govern the rest, and thus it is possible for 30,000,000 + 1 people to order about another 30,000,000 people.

Even worse, is that under a Democracy the 30,000,001 then can find ways to reduce it so that fewer people are able to vote making it so that there's 40,000,001 able to vote, and 25,000,001 are on the majority. Thus this rapidly becomes an Oligarchial System (United States.)

Not that it is necessarily a bad thing to state that certain individuals have lost the right to vote, because they have demonstrated a lack of responsibility by violating other peoples rights. These people would be criminals, or be insane and thus incapable of rational thought.

At the same time it also makes sense to place restrictions on who can vote, because such restrictions will also ensure that a tyrannical majority can not impose its will on a minority.

In the case of the United States this has come to pass.

A tyrannical majority (poor) have consistently voted to force a reluctant minority (middle class, working class, upper middle class) to support the existence of the poor and of the rich and affluent (government bureaucrats typically.)

What the Statists does not tell many people is that the majority of the affluent (top 90%) are in fact employees of the Federal Government or executives of Lower levels of Government. (The average Federal Government employee makes $100,000+/year including Benefits vs $58,000 for the average State Employee vs $52,000 for the average Private Sector Employee.)

In short there are more than the five classes listed by bureaucrat statisticians.

0. Entertainers (Actors, Actreeses, TV Stars, Sports Stars, etc.)
1. Executives of Major Corporations
2. Doctors/Lower Level Entertainers
3. Federal Employees/Lower Level Executive Bureaucrats
3. Entepreneurs / State Government Employees
4. Managers/Professionals
5. Low Level Managers/Line Workers
6. The Lazy Stupid Irresponsible Poor

...

Or perhaps a easier way. There's two types of people

Public Class and Private Class

The Private Classes are of course represented by the traditional Pyramid of Wealth

The Public Classes however can not be represented by the typical pyramid. While they typically make more than the Private Class on Average, their are as of right now drastically more of them, and their existence is maintained not by producing anything of value for the most part, but by stealing the fruits of the labor of the Private Classes.

The Statists (Republicans and Democrats) have managed to trick the public into thinking that there is some great divided between them when in fact both of them belong on the same side of the political spectrum, the far left (Socialism/Fascism.)

Then there are Libertarians/Conservatives who are distinct from the Statists in that they want more Freedom for individuals. and thus can not be grouped with Republicans who are really Statists using the cloak of Conservatism to hide their Statist intent (much like the Democrats are Statists who use the cloak of Liberalism to hide their Statist intent.)

There are also Liberals (true Liberals, not "liberals" as in Democrats) that also want more Human Freedom with out government interference. However it is no longer correct to address Liberals as Liberals, because the term Liberal has been hijacked by Statists to mean "desiring of having humanity turned into cogs in an industrial machine for the satisfaction of the State which pretends to desire their happiness."

No, the best term remaining to describe the classic Liberals would be Libertarians.

However as with Conservatism or Libertarianism the Statists have hijacked Liberal to mean supporting and desiring of more State Control.

In essence the Republicans and Democrats have stolen the terms used by internal factions with in them to describe themselves to hide their true intent, the continued creation of a Socialist or Fascist United States of America.

In truth there are two branches in Politics those that desire Freedom and Independence and those that want Safety and Slavery.

Those desiring Safety and Slavery have managed to divide those desiring Freedom and Independence into two camps. One that believes that Corporations are Evil --- nevermind that their existence is approved and maintained by the State as can be seen by the recent actions of both American Hitler II and American Hitler I (Obama and Bush) and the Old American Hitler (Clinton.) --- and another Branch that believes that Goverment is Evil --- understanding rightly that the rescuing of the corporations by the government was a play to expand the sphere of government control by the Socialist Statists (where as the Fascist Statists would have saved the corporations with more lenient terms, but tightened regulations down the road.)

In the end it can be assumed that there really should be two parties in the United States, but not the two that we currently have. One would be the Republican/Democrats (Statists) and the other would be Classic Liberals/Libertarians/Conservatives (Individualists.)

However the second has been divided by the first which has created a clever shell game where its factions pretend to be something that they are not, and thus continue to implement their policy of enslavement.

jfgordon1 · #2 05-04-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrutalTruth

I probably should have rewritten it (it's disjointed) but I haven't the time.

Though I'll try summarizing it.

Republican/Democrat = Statist/Pro-Enslavement

Libertarian/Liberal (classic)/Conservative = Individualist/Pro-Liberty

Republicans and Democrats have disguised their Statist intentions by hiding under the ideals of Libertarianism/Liberalism and Conservatism, and then have corrupted the message being pushed by both (more freedom) to mean the opposite (more slavery.)

couldn't agree more on that. i give it to the liberals that their ideas are very ideal. however, history says it doesn't work. that's why my belief is furthest right possible

. it has a few problems.. but i won't be "enslaved" that way

ilkhan · #3 05-05-2009, 02:12 AM

Well the poor and the middle class don't know it but they are being played ageinst one another. Its really .01 percent or less that controls the thinking in this country. When we move away from the ideals of individual liberty we end up sliding inexorably towards statism and eventually totalitarianism.

You know liberals only want to help, that is why they push universal health care. Its not that they are bad its that they have lost touch with the ideals of individual liberty. Yes Liberty has its draw backs. But it is much to be prefered over any other system yet proposed. Until the Government is run by Christ himself I will not trust it, and even then I may not trust it. (Are you sure your Christ? your positive?)

A libritarian may allow you to sell yourself into slavery. But you will never be forced into it. Furthermore, If you sold yourself into slavery then the slave holder has taken on responsability for your health and well being. You would be made to sign a contract detailing what would be expected of you as a new slave and what would be expected of the slave holder. What punishments could be meted out and so forth. You would always have legal recourse even as a slave. In a libritarian nation, Contracts are very important. Just make damn sure, and I can't enphasize this enouph, you get a lawyer before you sign anything!!! Really it would be about like signing up for the military. Not that I condone slavery. I just think there are some people out there who may prefer the security of slavery over the uncertainty of freedom. I respect that by all means who am I to denigh them the right to be the best slave they can be.

Yeah, My brother in-law showed me this line deal his teacher was pushing on him:
Left and right Commy-----------republic-----------Nazi. I was like WTF!! No no no I said its like this:

Oligarcy--------------------------Anachy
We're at....^ I want.......^ there. Minanarchy. Night watchmen government. Constitutional Republic. JBS websight explains it pretty good.

TheBrutalTruth · #4 05-05-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilkhan

Well the poor and the middle class don't know it but they are being played ageinst one another. Its really .01 percent or less that controls the thinking in this country. When we move away from the ideals of individual liberty we end up sliding inexorably towards statism and eventually totalitarianism.

You know liberals only want to help, that is why they push universal health care. Its not that they are bad its that they have lost touch with the ideals of individual liberty. Yes Liberty has its draw backs. But it is much to be prefered over any other system yet proposed. Until the Government is run by Christ himself I will not trust it, and even then I may not trust it. (Are you sure your Christ? your positive?)

A libritarian may allow you to sell yourself into slavery. But you will never be forced into it. Furthermore, If you sold yourself into slavery then the slave holder has taken on responsability for your health and well being. You would be made to sign a contract detailing what would be expected of you as a new slave and what would be expected of the slave holder. What punishments could be meted out and so forth. You would always have legal recourse even as a slave. In a libritarian nation, Contracts are very important. Just make damn sure, and I can't enphasize this enouph, you get a lawyer before you sign anything!!! Really it would be about like signing up for the military. Not that I condone slavery. I just think there are some people out there who may prefer the security of slavery over the uncertainty of freedom. I respect that by all means who am I to denigh them the right to be the best slave they can be.

Yeah, My brother in-law showed me this line deal his teacher was pushing on him:
Left and right Commy-----------republic-----------Nazi. I was like WTF!! No no no I said its like this:

Oligarcy--------------------------Anachy
We're at....^ I want.......^ there. Minanarchy. Night watchmen government. Constitutional Republic. JBS websight explains it pretty good.

Like I said, the Oligarchists have managed to confuse the shit out of people by making it look like they are diametrically opposed. The only true division between them is how little power they want to leave people afterwards.

Now, that's not stating that all politicians are bad, or are oligarchists, they just are too fucking stupid to step outside their position and actually look at the trends of what they are doing leads to.

The Road to Hell/Statism is Paved with Good Intentions.

medicineman · #5 05-05-2009, 02:03 PM

(The average Federal Government employee makes $100,000+/year including Benefits vs $58,000 for the average State Employee vs $52,000 for the average Private Sector Employee.)
Uhhhh, here's an example of the bullshit you spread. The facts are listed below:

GS-1 $17,046-$21,324 GS-2 $19,165-$24,115 GS-3 $20,911-$27,184 GS-4 $23,475-$30,522 GS-5 $26,264-$34,139 GS-6 $29,276-$38,060 GS-7 $32,534-$42,290 GS-8 $36,030-$46,839 GS-9 $39,795-$51,738 GS-10 $43,824-$56,973 GS-11 $48,148-$62,593 GS-12 $57,709-$75,025 GS-13 $68,625-$89,217 GS-14 $81,093-$105,420 GS-15 $95,390-$124,010

As anyone can see, one must reach GS14 with some seniority before you even approach the 100K platform

TheBrutalTruth · #6 05-05-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicineman

(The average Federal Government employee makes $100,000+/year including Benefits vs $58,000 for the average State Employee vs $52,000 for the average Private Sector Employee.)
Uhhhh, here's an example of the bullshit you spread. The facts are listed below:

GS-1 $17,046$21,324GS-2 $19,165$24,115GS-3$20,911$27,184GS-4$23,475$30,522GS-5$26,264$34,139GS-6 $29,276$38,060GS-7$32,534$42,290GS-8$36,030$46,839GS-9$39,795$51,738GS-10$43,824$56,973GS-11$48,148$62,593GS-12$57,709$75,025GS-13$68,625$89,217GS-14$81,093$105,420GS-15$95,390$124,010

+ Pension
+ Health Care
+ Holidays

medicineman · #7 05-05-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrutalTruth

+ Pension
+ Health Care
+ Holidays

They add up to what, 10-20K at most. That would still put the 100K mark at around GS 13.

TheBrutalTruth · #8 05-05-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medicineman

They add up to what, 10-20K at most. That would still put the 100K mark at around GS 13.

GS Pay Grades: GS-1
2008
Salary: $19,247 – $24,127
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $19,997 – $25,067
With a 2.4% Increase: $19,709 – $24,706
With a 3.5% Increase: $19,921 – $24,971
Percent of Federal Work Force .2%

GS Pay Grades: GS-2
2008
Salary: $21,640 – $27,293
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $22,483- $28,357
With a 2.4% Increase: $22,159 – $27,948
With a 3.5% Increase: $22,397 – $28,248
Percent of Federal Work Force .3%

GS Pay Grades: GS-3
2008
Salary: $23,612 – $30,766
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $24,532 – $31,965
With a 2.4% Increase: $24,179 – $31,504
With a 3.5% Increase: $24,438 – $31,843
Percent of Federal Work Force 1.2%

GS Pay Grades: GS-4
2008
Salary: $26,506 – $34,535
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $27,539 – $35,881
With a 2.4% Increase: $27,142 – $35,364
With a 3.5% Increase: $27,433 – $35,744
Percent of Federal Work Force 3.0%

GS Pay Grades: GS-5
2008
Salary: $29,656 – $38,641
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $30,813 – $40,148
With a 2.4% Increase: $30,368 – $39,490
With a 3.5% Increase: $30,694 – $39,993
Percent of Federal Work Force 5.3%

GS Pay Grades: GS-6
2008
Salary: $31,740 – $41,262
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $34,346 – $44,754
With a 2.4% Increase: $33,850 – $44,108
With a 3.5% Increase: $34,214 – $44,581
Percent of Federal Work Force 4.1%

GS Pay Grades: GS-7
2008
Salary: $33,057 – $42,290
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $34,346 – $43,939
With a 2.4% Increase: $32,501 – $42,252
With a 3.5% Increase: $32,850 – $42,707
Percent of Federal Work Force 7.0%

GS Pay Grades: GS-8
2008
Salary: $40,683 – $53,014
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $42,270 – $55,082
With a 2.4% Increase: $41,659 – $54,286
With a 3.5% Increase: $42,107 – $54,869
Percent of Federal Work Force 3.0%

GS Pay Grades: GS-9
2008 Salary: $44,934 – $58,549
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $46,686 – $60,773
With a 2.4% Increase: $46,012 – $59,954
With a 3.5% Increase: $46,507 – $60,598
Percent of Federal Work Force 6.6%

GS Pay Grades: GS-10
2008
Salary: $49,483 – $64,477
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $51,413 – $66,992
With a 2.4% Increase: $50,671 – $66,024
With a 3.5% Increase: $51,215 – $66,734
Percent of Federal Work Force .8%

GS Pay Grades: GS-11
2008
Salary: $54,367 – $70,844
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $56,487 – $73,607
With a 2.4% Increase: $55,672 – $72,544
With a 3.5% Increase: $56,270 – $73,324
Percent of Federal Work Force 9.9%

GS Pay Grades: GS-12
2008
Salary: $65,161 – $84,911
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $67,702 – $88,223
With a 2.4% Increase: $66,725 – $86,949
With a 3.5% Increase: $67,442 – $87,883
Percent of Federal Work Force 11.2%

GS Pay Grades: GS-13
2008
Salary:$77,488 – $100,972
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $80,510 – $104,910
With a 2.4% Increase: $79,348 – $103,395
With a 3.5% Increase: $80,200 – $104,001
Percent of Federal Work Force 10.0%

GS Pay Grades: GS-14
2008
Salary: $91,566 – $119,312
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $95,137 – $123,956
With a 2.4% Increase: $93,764 – $122,175
With a 3.5% Increase: $94,771 – $123,488
Percent of Federal Work Force 4.9%

GS Pay Grades: GS-15
2008
Salary: $107,709 – $140,021
2009
With a 3.9% Increase: $110,252 – $145,482
With a 2.4% Increase: $110,294 – $143,522
With a 3.5% Increase: $114,154 – $144,922
Percent of Federal Work Force 3.2%

I'd personally think the actual cost estimate of the pensions should be doubled because they will have continued Cost of Living Adjustments, so call it $30K/annually for Pensions and Health Care, and another $2 - $5K for potential bonsues, so $32 - $35K on top of base pay, + holidays,

http://www.opm.gov/flsa/oca/09tables/pdf/saltbl.pdf
http://www.govcentral.com/benefits/articles/2374?page=2
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ns-cover_x.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May16.html Bonuses
http://www.publicpurpose.com/gf-gemp.htm
http://sourcesandmethods.blogspot.co...c-cost-66.html

Can't neglect contractors who should be considered as being government employees when discussing the average compensation of public sector employees.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/econom...inmenu-43/1057

ViRedd · #9 05-05-2009, 05:44 PM

Don't forget to add in what they can steal ... and that's not counting the bribes and money saved on not paying taxes.

Vi

max420thc · #10 05-06-2009, 07:14 AM

it looks like most government employees make more than the people who slave to pay their wages.
you know what . anytime a group of people at the rate of 98% vote their hand into the public pocket i say they all can go fuck themselfs. even the 2% who didnt .