Principals By : TheBrutalTruth (2009-04-30 19:00:20)

"No power on earth has a right to take our property from us without our consent." - John Jay

Such a simple statement, and yet in it John Jay, who was one of the American Revolutionaries captured the essence of the reason why the revolution had started.

The American Revolution was the direct result of

1. Taxation
2. Lack of Representation
3. Violation of Property Rights (quartering soldiers in homes with out consent)
4. Tyranny (Monarchy, Oligarchy, Dictatorship)

In just those four items the reason for the revolution is explained in a nutshell, but John Jay captures all four in his simple statement.

The first of course is easily evident, government (or the State) is a power, and even if it is the legal government it can not use illegal means to confiscate wealth. Well it can (has the ability to) but it should not, due to the violation of morals and ethics taking a persons property with out their consent implies.

The second, lack of representation, is also itemized in the statement. When a government chooses to steal your money with out your consent it is fairly clear that you are not being represented by that government.

The third, Violation of Property Rights, extends to the quartering of soldiers to the act of taxation itself. Even in the modern era where taxes are collected on income property rights are still violated. The money that is stolen or taken by force from the public could have been put to use enriching their lives. This of course would spur economic development generating more jobs, leading to higher taxes (if taxes were reduced to reasonable levels.)

The fourth, Tyranny, refers not so much to the actions of a government, but the form of the government. In the case of the colonists they were rebelling against a government that was dominated by the King and his court of Nobles (The House of Nobles.)

Now, the same items ties into the modern world.

The government (US) is once again taking peoples property (income) with out their consent.

It is violating their Property Rights (as a direct result of the above).

It is marked by a period during which roughly 50% of the population is not represented, alternating with a period during which the same 50% is represented, but the other 50% is not.

And it is a tyranny dominated by the elite few.

What is ironic about the last is the fact that very few people actually recognize that this has occurred having been brainwashed by the government to believe that their interests are some how represented by some one that makes more than 10x what they do, doesn't have to worry about their retirement, and is essentially an elected slave driver elected by the very people that are enslaved.

Of course, this was not the way the founders intended the country to be governed.

They did not intend for their to be just 435 representatives. They intended that there would be at least 1,700 and quite possible as many as 10,030.

They intended for the Representatives to represent the commoners, while the Senators represented the money interests.

They did not intend for it to be impossible for some one that was not independently wealthy to be able to campaign for office as a Representative. They intended that it would be possible for any person of sufficient willingness to campaign to be a Representative.

In short, due to the actions of the "representatives" of this country in 1929 a not quite majority of the population is not adequately represented by their "representatives."

This jarring paradox becomes more apparent when one looks at a map, and realizes that many House Districts are dominated by an Urban Center that has the majority of the votes, when had the vision of the founders been upheld it is likely that the Urban Center would have been divided into many smaller House Districts, and the Urban Areas would have their own Representatives, ensuring better representation of all citizens, and doing a better job of holding true to the 1 person, 1 vote rule.

In closing, the statement made by John Jay itemized the grievances of the people that took part in the American Revolution.

"No power on earth" - No Government, or any individual

" has a right to take our property from us "- Tax/Steal

" without our consent." - Representing us, and if they are taking our property in taxes with out our consent it is very unlikely that they actually represent us. (Which means they are acting like Tyrannical.)

It also bears very well on the current state of affairs that has been pushed by both major parties since they decided to ignore the founders vision of a truly Representative House of Representatives by artificially fixing the number of seats at 435.

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Libertas inaestimabilis res est - Liberty is a thing beyond all price. | Sic Semper Tyrannis

the principles of the founders..they would have started a war for what is going on in this country right now..
there would be politicians lawyers and judges tared and feathered in front of their homes ...

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everything i print write or show on here is a complete and utter lie..i cant help myself i am a terminal liar..all of this shit is just fiction and made up for entertainment purposes ONLY..

Probably, something along the lines of Taxation with out Representation (a recurring problem that effects both "sides" alternately), Violation of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, Violation of Rights.

Though the one that is most interesting is the Taxation with out Representation. Which of course the Statists will argue is not an issue, when it is in fact an issue. It is impossible to actually argue that rural citizens are represented (their Congressional Districts are typically dominated by whatever city or cities it contains). It is also impossible to argue that either party actually truly represents the wide interests of each individual or demographics in the country.

Just because half the country votes for one or the other doesn't mean that one or the other actually represents the people that voted for it as fully as it should (and to the extent that whatever candidate it put forward would have to if the House of Representatives was at the size level that it should be 1,667|10,034 depending on how you determine it.)

It is very likely that the founders would have revolted.

Of course, at the time of the revolt many of the revolutionaries were in positions of power in the colonies and objected to the Crown interfering in their affairs and arbitrarily altering their charters.

Of course, I have yet to see any political party that actually represents everything that I'd support.

I still think we need more Representatives though, 435 is just not enough.

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Libertas inaestimabilis res est - Liberty is a thing beyond all price. | Sic Semper Tyrannis

great read sir. the founders definitely would be turning over in their grave if they knew what was going on right now.

+ rep 2 u

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"The Cruelest Trick Came From The Talibans, Who Allowed Plenty Of Drugs And Then Banned Music."
"Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning"- G.W.B.

You sir are correct TBT,we the American people are being screwed by the rich.Why so they can gain more power over the rest of us.
The government has a new trick they started a few years ago around here.Eminent Domain,i look to it being used more and more in the future.OPH

Well, I don't know if I'd say we are being screwed over by the rich. Being rich does not necessarily mean that they are part of the people that actually control the country.

Though I will definitely say that a characteristic of the "public servants" is that they make 10 - 20x more than the average American that they are "serving."

Elected Nobles and Kings.

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Libertas inaestimabilis res est - Liberty is a thing beyond all price. | Sic Semper Tyrannis

Thanks, though they might find it all freaking hillarious having decided to gamble on how long it would take for the country that they founded to lapse into an oligarchy.

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Libertas inaestimabilis res est - Liberty is a thing beyond all price. | Sic Semper Tyrannis

I have a friend who's fathers gas station was taken at 1/4 market value through "eminent domain" to build a bridge...... 28 years later... no bridge yet... what it is is eminent richer peoples wishes........

This thread is all about righties. The founding fathers were the rich dicks of their day. They founded exactly what a bunch of rich white slave owners thought a society should look like. They had some good ideas about personal freedom and the rights of citizens, But, they were mostly concerned that the Brits were taking their money. It was all about the "Benjanins", Just like today. The Population in 1776 was a paltry 2.5 million, hardly the megalopolis the USA is today. The Basic principles of the founders hold true in an individual premis, but the complexities of modern American society could not have been dreamed about in 1776. This bullshit about what the founding fathers would do is just rediculous. They would do just like all the rich folk, they would bitch about, and cheat on their taxes, own villas on caribbean islands. Jet set around the world and enjoy being rich. They'd probably be real pissed about the no slave thingy..

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Life is good, the water is sweet. The ground keeps moving beneath my feet.

i bet Jefferson would have won...wait... uhh... yeah, definitely Jefferson

__________________
"The Cruelest Trick Came From The Talibans, Who Allowed Plenty Of Drugs And Then Banned Music."
"Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning"- G.W.B.