Global Governance through Realtime Interaction. - Page 3

Jointsmith · #21 03-17-2009, 06:52 AM

I mean a sphere like the Earth or Sun.

I know in reality they are Elliptical sphere's.... but for arguments sake they are sphere's.

I'm not suggesting that this system would be perfect.... nothing EVER is... it would be a constantly changing and evolving entitie...just like society is.

But it would be a great improvement on the current system (which is not like a mountain range, that suggests multiple peaks, maybe a single mountain ... or more acuractely a pyramid)

TheBrutalTruth · #22 03-17-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jointsmith

I mean a sphere like the Earth or Sun.

I know in reality they are Elliptical sphere's.... but for arguments sake they are sphere's.

I'm not suggesting that this system would be perfect.... nothing EVER is... it would be a constantly changing and evolving entitie...just like society is.

But it would be a great improvement on the current system (which is not like a mountain range, that suggests multiple peaks, maybe a single mountain ... or more acuractely a pyramid)

No, I think a mountain range is a more accurate illustration,

though if you're going to try comparing it to a pyramid, the only institution that would imply is a Socialist System such as the one that you are proposing.

Who would have oversight in your system?

And you still haven't addressed the issue of having to monitor what everyone eats, and how much shit they flush down the toilet.

Your system is a totalitarian regime marred by the massive failures of all such Democracies.

It will let the majority destroy the minority.

Jointsmith · #23 03-17-2009, 08:12 AM

No I disagree, the system as it stands is very much a pyramid.

The people with the power to CREATE 'Money' at the top. Followed by the people with the most power to BUY this money (buy with what? good question), down to the largest segments of society, those with little power to BUY money and those with NO POWER to buy money.

I don't see how this idea even compairs to a Pyramid.

A computer protocol, with the basic parameters openly debated , based around the basic Human rights and necissities for existance, to which ANYBODY can contribute EQUALLY. I don't really see who would be at the top.... Maybe the 'GEEKS' at first, but as I've already said, as more and more people grow up having used computers since year zero, I don't see it really being a huge problem.

Why would we NEED to MONITOR how much people eat and how much shit they flush? this is just some thing GOVERNMENT does to justify it's own existance.

As long as these things are being done and everybody has enough, there is no need to MONITOR anything. I suppose the system would really be 'monitored' by the constant input and communication of the PEOPLE.

Jointsmith · #24 03-17-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrutalTruth

Who would have oversight in your system?

Who has oversight in our Current system? and shouldn't it be EVERYONE.

I really think the system I am proposing would increase peoples ability to be FREE and pursue happiness in whatever way they see fit.

The worst parts of society are driven by MONEY .....Exploitation, Crime, People dying because they can't 'Buy' their treatment, poverty, etc etc.

And ANYTHING good, would still be possible even without MONEY.

Jointsmith · #25 03-17-2009, 08:45 AM

I see this program as being almost like a mixture of Facebook, GoogleEarth, YellowPages, MySpace, Polls Sites, Web Forums For Every Niche, Youtube, LastFM, etc etc.

All combined into a system running as One Entity of global co-operation.

TheBrutalTruth · #26 03-17-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jointsmith

I see this program as being almost like a mixture of Facebook, GoogleEarth, YellowPages, MySpace, Polls Sites, Web Forums For Every Niche, Youtube, LastFM, etc etc.

All combined into a system running as One Entity of global co-operation.

Your system will fail, because there are no rewards for hard work.

There are no rewards for pursuing excellence.

There are no rewards for innovation, for talent, for driving humanity upwards.

In short, it's the typical communist agenda that insists that by dividing the wealth there will some how magically be more wealth created.

It's a myth, a lie, and an absurdity.

It goes against human nature.

You speak about people that are capable of using computers, trust me, if I even think for a moment that your system has a chance of existing I will devote my life to tearing it down.

I will do away with my morals that have prohibited me from writing computer viruses and go to writing computer viruses.

I refuse to have my labor equated with the labor of a fastfood worker.

What's even more insulting is that under your system you'd be equating the labor of a farmer with a fastfood worker.

The difference between a farmer and a fastfood worker is that a farmer actually creates something of value, a fast food worker is nothing more than a service employee that does not generate wealth, but exists in the middle of the system.

Your system would require monitoring, and tracking, and lead to a complete violation of privacy.

Your system does not create PARADISE, it creates HELL

TheBrutalTruth · #27 03-17-2009, 09:40 AM

Egalitarianism: The Holy Grail of Socialism

by weebies

Quote:

Egalitarianism is “a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic rights and privileges” and “a social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among people.” “Egalitarianismis the moral doctrine that equality ought to prevail among some group along some dimension.” The main concern with those who advocate egalitarianism is equality of results, which is the prime objective of socialism.
One issue that needs to be addressed is whether people want equality of results. It’s only human nature: because people are individuals, each person has different wants and needs. People choose different professions and hobbies based on their individual preferences, not on hoping to achieve equality of results. People purchase goods, be they clothes, computers, fishing gear, food, etc., based on individual lifestyles and how they will enhance one’s interests. It is very doubtful that most people, especially those favoring liberty and freedom of choice, would actually see any value in equality of results.
Another issue is who decides what equality of results means and how it will be administered? Who is the arbiter of equality? Most socialists use phrases like “the people, the masses, the proletariat” to indicate who should be the deciding force in a socialistic society. What they really advocate is democracy, or what I like to call dahMOBcracy, which is just mob rule. Marx stated: "Democracy is the road to socialism.” Democracy is collectivist thinking that the majority can determine what is best for all people, which is inimical to the very ideas of personal freedom and choice. Also, how do you administer this equality of results? Either you allow a free-for-all grab by each individual of what their equal share is (lawless anarchy), or you need a central resource (a state) to administer the common property.
The most important issue is whether equality of results is practical. History shows that it is completely impractical. The only thing that equality of results has accomplished where it has been implemented is to spread poverty and famine. It has never raised the living standards of those it claimed to benefit, but has only lowered them. As has been noted by many – “capitalism is the uneven distribution of wealth, and socialism the even distribution of poverty.”
Karl Marx’s most famous quotation is probably: “From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need.” This egalitarian concept of Marx sounds good, but leads to mediocrity at best, and actually discourages production. It is completely out of touch with how individuals act in real life. As Thomas Shelly explained to his high school classes: “Socialism--even in a democracy--would eventually result in a living death for all except the ‘authorities’ and a few of their favorite lackeys.”
Another socialist who advanced egalitarian thinking is Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, a French anarchist of the 19th Century. Proudhon is famous for stating "Property is theft" in his writing “What is Property?” While Proudhon was against private property, he advocated individual possession. It appears that he may have created the popular socialist egalitarian position that property is theft, but at some point he realized it was completely unworkable in real life, and then used the term individual possession to get around the problem he developed. Marx was heavily influenced by Proudhon’s ideas about property.
The idea that private property is theft promotes an economic equality of results that is disastrous. While in theory it should mean that we are all equally rich, sharing in all the property of each other, in reality it means individuals own nothing and are equally poor. An individual’s possessions, his house, car, TV, clothes, and all other belongings, are not his any longer, and can be claimed by the first looter or group of looters who come along to claim them. Even a person’s most valuable possession, his life, is not safe from the depredations of those who view him as a faceless cog to be molded for the greater glory of society.
Private property, or in Proudhon’s case individual possession, is vital for any civilized society. While it is alright for individuals to voluntarily share private property, as in individual families or other arrangements such as communes, the basic concept of individual property rights must be maintained. Private property is vital for an effective rule of law that will be beneficial to society as a whole, something egalitarianism claims to promote, but utterly fails to do. Without private property, societies tend toward lawlessness, and become a looter’s paradise.
Egalitarians have confused the meaning of Jefferson ’s “all men are created equal.” While this is one of the most important concepts in the Declaration of Independence , it has nothing to do with equality of results. Obviously, it can not mean people are identical. Nature creates us as individuals, all with different talents, characteristics, and desires. All it can mean is that all people have equal liberty, and an individual should have the complete freedom to choose how he or she wants to live. Egalitarianism is actually at odds with this concept, and would try to force individuals to accept the dictates of the masses.
Egalitarianism is an attempt to create a utopia, an earthly paradise. Egalitarians, in their mad dash for equality of results, are all too willing to use the power of the state to pass laws that oppose the natural laws of economics and individual expression. As with all such mad schemes, it is completely unsound, and always leads to the opposite, hell on earth. While socialists might regard equality of results as their holy grail, it is really their Achilles’ heel.
As in any scam that promises more than it can deliver, there are always schemers looking to exploit it for a quick profit. There are con men who use equality of results to dupe unsuspecting marks to support their grab for power and looting. As comes as no surprise to freedom lovers, the state and its adherents are the prime supporters of egalitarianism. It makes the perfect façade, a self-righteous wall of hypocrisy, that they are correcting injustices, while perpetrating schemes that rob individuals of liberty, property, and self-determination and adds power to the state.
The state always promises that it will benefit everyone with its programs and that society will be greatly enhanced as a whole. The opposite is always true. From its wars on poverty, crime, drugs, terrorism, and all its other wars and programs, the state never accomplishes what it says are its primary objectives.
The state always uses clever schemes and names, and democratic means, to sell these completely worthless programs to an unsuspecting and gullible public. There is its “No Child Left Behind” education program, which if truth in advertising were required, would be called “Every Child Left Behind.” The state promotes the idea that it is heartless to oppose something for the benefit of all children, when facts show the state is an utter failure at education.
The height of hubris is the US state’s war of terror, which promises to bring peace and freedom, not just to America but the world. Of course you can never bring peace and freedom by murdering people in foreign countries, destroying private property, and stealing their resources. As in all such state programs, it is just a way to grab more power for the state and its sycophants. It allows the politically well-connected to loot the US treasury, at the expense of everyone else.
For those still unconvinced about the negative impact of equality of results, consider this scenario – a society where equality of results is the primary concern and democracy is used to implement it. In this society, everything is determined by democratic vote. What clothes everyone will wear, what food everyone will eat and what times they will eat, what time each person will get up and go to bed, what TV channel everyone will watch and what times everyone will watch it, what toothbrush and toothpaste everyone will use, what job everyone will have, what recreation everyone will be allowed. Even if people could physically survive, such a society would result in such a drab, monotonous existence that it would be a living hell. While this society would ensure equality of results, no rational person would actually want to live under such conditions.
Those who think the previous scenario is unrealistic and not representative of what equality of results would accomplish should read Ayn Rand’s We the Living. The book is a fictional novel, but set in the historical era of the Bolshevik Revolution, which Rand lived through as a child and young adult. The historical facts portrayed in her novel speak for themselves, and are terrifying.
Egalitarianism is actually the enemy of the individual and freedom. To get equality of results, individual desires and preferences have to be ignored. Also, a person’s freedom of self-determination must be sacrificed to achieve equal results.
Egalitarianism, and its equality of results, is not something to be desired or worked for. Its main benefactor is the state, which uses it to rob people of their freedom, property, and self-determination. The only equality that we need is the freedom for each individual to live his life as he chooses.

Jointsmith · #28 03-17-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrutalTruth

Your system will fail, because there are no rewards for hard work.

There are no rewards for pursuing excellence.

There are no rewards for innovation, for talent, for driving humanity upwards.

In short, it's the typical communist agenda that insists that by dividing the wealth there will some how magically be more wealth created.

It's a myth, a lie, and an absurdity.

It goes against human nature.

You speak about people that are capable of using computers, trust me, if I even think for a moment that your system has a chance of existing I will devote my life to tearing it down.

I will do away with my morals that have prohibited me from writing computer viruses and go to writing computer viruses.

I will count on the fact that there will be a lot more people FAR more intellegent than yourself working to make society function, and weak ass viruses by bitter OLD farts like you

will be worked out and resolved quickly.

Thats what happens when people work together and communiate effictively, problems get solved.

I'm not talking about dividing the wealth, wealth comes from within...how hard working you are, your talents, etc.

The Rewards for being Excellence would be exceptional ammount of LOVE you would receive from EVERYONE you benefitted. Having lots of friends and people who love you for who you are is a reward IMO.... thats not even including the fact that your friends are always inclined to help you out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrutalTruth

I refuse to have my labor equated with the labor of a fastfood worker.

What's even more insulting is that under your system you'd be equating the labor of a farmer with a fastfood worker.

The difference between a farmer and a fastfood worker is that a farmer actually creates something of value, a fast food worker is nothing more than a service employee that does not generate wealth, but exists in the middle of the system.

Your system would require monitoring, and tracking, and lead to a complete violation of privacy.

Your system does not create PARADISE, it creates HELL

How about a 'fastfood worker' who works hard his whole life? Makes beautiful Pizza's, refines complex recipies, works really hard, teaches his friends and family how to make Beautiful Pizza's, makes a Beautiful resturant, people Enjoy his food everyday, always with a smile on his face.

Does THIS 'fastfood worker' have any less value than a hard working farmer?

People Motivated by the love of what they are doing work a lot harder than those being forced to work for money.

I know the people you are refering to, however I think you are being pretty bigotted. You think someone is 'lazy' because they work in a fast food restaurant?

For starters you need to consider the Educational and Social backgrounds of these people and the actual oppertunities that they have had in their lives. This has been caused by the Ecomonic System as it is now and has been for nearly 100 years.

I think this system would open all oppertunities for all.

I think what you're REALLY worried about is that you may not be able to get FASTFOOD.... and you're right... the FAT LAZY FUCKS probably won't be catered for.... not at the expense of people having to be enslaved to jobs they hate, and the total economic exploitation of the 'third world'....

But hey, I expect there'll be plenty of people willing to share their knoweledge of how to make really tasty food... or whatever 'service' needs doing.... and I honestly believe, if it's a fair request people would be willing to offer their help.

You only need to click on 'New Post's' above to see the number of people helping each other and giving advise.... not because their being paid, but just for the sake of it.

medicineman · #29 03-17-2009, 10:09 AM

One of the drawbacks that I see is the inequality of the poorer countries. No computers to log on to and no apparent skills. The benefit of world labor markets for the greedy Multinational corporations is already driving down regional labor prices. When juxtaposed against living conditions and cost of living, this tends to put the working forces in 1st world countries at a gross disadvantage. The advantage of one world workers, is definently in the favor of the corporations.

Jointsmith · #30 03-17-2009, 10:20 AM

Brutal, I'm not advocating Equallity of Results, I'm advocating equallity of Oppertunities.

What people choose to do with those oppertunities is really up to them as it should be.

There would be no invasion into peoples private lives, what people make public about themselves is really up to each individual.

In fact there would be less forcefull invasion into peoples lives than there currently is.... especially when you consider all laws imposed by our goverments, controlling our actions and taking our rights away.

The ONLY reason ANYTHING about your private life would be known by anyone else would be if you made it public or you affected someone else who made it public (either negetively or positively, praise or condemnation).

Forum	Shop	Market		Seeds	FAQ	Tools
SEE OUR MARIJUANA SEED GUIDE FOR THE BEST STRAINS				Looking for Legal Marijuana look no further!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Global Warming on trial...	Indie	Politics	194	12-21-2007 08:58 AM
Dr. Williams on Global Warming	ViRedd	Politics	14	09-30-2007 08:35 AM
Global Warming; Things you won't hear on CBS.	ViRedd	Politics	4	09-13-2007 10:22 AM
Global Warming Swindle	ViRedd	Politics	113	05-07-2007 02:33 AM
New Global warming puzzle: Is it the sun?	Dankdude	Politics	184	12-26-2006 03:09 PM

User Name		Remember Me?
Password

SEE OUR MARIJUANA SEED GUIDE FOR THE BEST STRAINS

Looking for Legal Marijuana look no further!

Thread

Thread Starter

Forum

Replies

Last Post

Posting Rules