http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ct...ibution_1.html

its just some guys opinion but its a good and fact based one, can someone who supports wealth redistribution come up with something like this?
nah probably not, i am sure i will just be flamed by liberals and especially Medicineman all on feelings and such even though i am willing to bet not a single liberal can come up with something like this. I mean thats just how liberals are, they cant see the light even when fact and numbers are placed in front of them. its kind of like talking to the wall or a rock. and yes i said talking to a liberal is like talking to a rock. so go ahead and flame on if you want most of you probably wont even read the article. but thats ok, stupid is as stupid does. ;(

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I exist only to be a gadfly...
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Classic straw man argument. He beats that straw man six ways from sunday, but doesn't put a scratch on any actual modern liberal philosophy.

Liberal philosophy is not about making everyone equal, it's about making success easier for those who are less fortunate. Even die-hard liberals will admit that you're going to have people who are more successful than others.

[quote=bl33b;1700973]http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ct...ibution_1.html

its just some guys opinion but its a good and fact based one, can someone who supports wealth redistribution come up with something like this?
nah probably not, i am sure i will just be flamed by liberals and especially Medicineman all on feelings and such even though i am willing to bet not a single liberal can come up with something like this. I mean thats just how liberals are, they cant see the light even when fact and numbers are placed in front of them. its kind of like talking to the wall or a rock. and yes i said talking to a liberal is like talking to a rock. so go ahead and flame on if you want most of you probably wont even read the article. but thats ok, stupid is as stupid does. ;([/quote]
Quit stealing my sayings. I read enough to know it was compiled by a right wing libertarian, and hell yeah 55,000 would suit me fine. It sure as hell wouldnt suit the top 15%, even the top 25%, but you see in a democracy, the majority rules, that leaves 75% that would benefit from this, so I say, go for it. The problem with trying to institute a socialist state is: this is already an oligarcic plutochracy, and those with the gold are ruling and will not let go without a fight to the death, which would suit me fine, I'd take up arms against the rich faster that any foriegn country that has not invaded us. When I say the words "Oligarcic Plutochracy" it comes off the tongue with a gasping choking sound, like I'm being strangled by rich assholes, the same assholes that started this country's kids. The intent of the founding fathers is interpreted way differently by rich and poor. I believe the constitution is a living breathing document, one that requires constant updating to meet the needs of the nation. We need a peoples referendum to start pre-emptive wars, I'll bet there would be none of those. We need the draft, so every mothers son would have to serve, no exceptions, like switzerland. That in itself would curtail warmongering. And yes, I'm a liberal and proud of it. Just for your information: I started working at 15 and never looked back, I raised 3 kids and got a 2 year degree working two jobs and going to night school. So to you're inference that I may be a lazy asshole, I can only say fuck you very much. I looked into management as that was what my degree was in, Business management, but all I saw was a bunch of ass kissing and bowing down to your superiors, something I wasn't really cut out for, so I worked Union and made as much as most middle managers. So Yes I am a proud liberal and fuck all you libertarian assholes, is that clear enough for you?

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Life is good, the water is sweet. The ground keeps moving beneath my feet.

define "less fortunate"

god i hate these buzz words, you assign sympathy into a classic reasoning debate, feelings have no place in logical argument

you mean people who arent as "successful" because they werent dealt the right hand? thats called life, and further more how do you make success easier for those "less fortunate"

well its simple, hold back the successful ones

i mean if you have a race and you put a kenya track star, versus a thirty year smoker, of course the 30 year smoker is at a disadvantage for many reasons......so to give the thirty year smoker a better chance at success you must handi-cap the kenyan track star

thats your classic liberal philosophy or do you disagree?

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honey, i forgot to duck

People have no choice, they have to compete whether they want to or not. Successful people would only be held back in terms of their incomes, not in terms of what they're able to accomplish. The most successful people make way more money than they'd ever be able to spend.

The natural answer here is that life shouldn't have to be a competition first and foremost. It should be possible for a dad to spend time with his kids rather than spending every waking minute at work to out-compete the other guys.

That's a personal choice, I don't think that such a person who chooses the former should be able to say that a person that chooses the latter should have to pay for the first person to be lazier than they are.

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Libertas inaestimabilis res est - Liberty is a thing beyond all price. | Sic Semper Tyrannis

and who is to define accomplishments? newsflash to be successful you dont have to be rich, and even bigger news flash, rich people become more successful through their income. they take what they feel like risking and invest it

also, people always have a choice, some people have it harder than others, ya, but for a government or anyone else to try and level the playing field.....well it tampers with the system, it doesnt work. welfare, hand up programs, etc. most of these are failed social experiments nothing more, and you can put the blame on whatever, lack of education, racial tension, bias in the workplace, it doesnt matter, in the end we are all just people, some with god given abilities to achieve or the advantage to do so, and some wont.......it will always be that way. honestly trying to fix that is like fighting the war on drugs

yes it is, life is most certainly a competition, anyone who doesnt believe that is set for a life of under-achievement

you know, my dad when he was 19 (like my age) worked a full 80 hours a week for an entire year because he got his ex wife pregnant twice and had to to support my two older half brothers (both of which are now successful) he later started his own business, triad tool and die inc. and worked at it for years, he became the best at what he did in the southeast. years later, he cant work anymore, his back is shot, he put a nail through his hand, had his thumb ripped off and for what? well he put two sons through life, one has three kids and is a marine and CPA, the other an up and coming lawyer making bank. i myself am still in college as in my little brother. he now enjoys his time playing pool and poker in bars at late nights. he spent as much time as he could when he had it, but work came first.......that sir is success in its purest form

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honey, i forgot to duck

Capitalism = equals uneven outcome of wealth.

Socialism = equals even outcome of poverty.

Vi

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Liberals are people that will believe anything twice.

I agree, stalebiscuit.

Success comes to who earns it. Expecting the government to hand it to you is the most irresponsible thing imaginable.

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Am I supposed to have some sort of disclaimer here?

I'M NOT ADVOCATING A SOCIALIST SYSTEM! Just a system in which the government takes an active role in assisting people with fewer opportunities.

I'm not saying more people should get government handouts, just that our society should value things besides money-making capability. Doing a decent job raising kids, for instance. If life was just a competition to make the most money then no one would have kids because, you know, it's a lot easier to make money if you don't have kids mooching off you.

Most rich people I know made their money by starting a company. If you own a company, you only pay taxes on profit, so most companies reinvest most of their profits so they pay less taxes. Essentially, they don't pay taxes on the money they're investing. You ever learn anything about the economics of running a business?

I'm not saying we should necessarily give unsuccessful people handouts, just make it easier for anyone to achieve success on their own terms.

I said life shouldn't be first and foremost a competition. Sure, there's a lot of competing in life, but that shouldn't be all there is to life.

Yes, and people like your dad shouldn't have to pay the same tax rate as people like Warren Buffet. My parents were really quite poor as well. But we grew up on a farm and grew most of our own food, so we got along. I admire that idea of not accepting charity, and my parents never applied for Medicaid or the free lunch program even though we could have gotten it easily. My point is if someone like your dad wanted to say, take a course on diesel mechanics so he can make a better wage working for a trucking company, the government should help him do that, perhaps by subsidizing the vocational school. Not by giving him a handout.