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Old 10-12-2008, 06:05 PM
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Default Bail Out or Slush Fund?
Bail Out or Slush Fund?

What do they say about history repeats? With four weeks left before the General Election of 2008, it's important to plan forward, but also to look back.

In the last few weeks of the 2004 campaign, while the Democratic party dithered over whether to pitch to Right or Left, George W. Bush pulled out every stop. For the affluent (and those aspiring to affluence) he promised more deregulation and tax cuts. For single issue theocratic types, he spouted stir-it-up talk about preserving straight white patriarchal elites. To those already drowning in a war economy with no safety net, W offered an appeal to primal instinct. At the level of advertising, tv and talk radio, the presidential race shrank to just one question: Who do you Trust? John Kerry – the flip flopper "girlie" man – or Bush, the-with-me-or-against me wartime president?

In this election like that one, the Right's ground troops were fed plenty of rhetoric. But Rove didn't rely on red meat alone. There was also cash. We've learned a lot about how GOP political operatives led by Rove politicized every tentacle of the federal government from the Defense Department to Justice. So it should come as no surprise to recall that in the weeks before the '04 election, Bush administration officials dispersed a mountain of government largesse in swing states. In the two weeks before Election Day, the administration announced $10 million for a church-based job training scheme in Jacksonville Florida, money for a long-awaited wildlife refuge in Minnesota and a national park in Colorado. Just days before the voting, the Bushies came up with $207 million to clean up drinking water in Columbus, Ohio.

In 2004, a government that was already in overdraft had plenty of money for pre-election favors. This year, there's more than $700 billion to dole out. We've been told the money could start being dispersed at any moment. Call me crazy, but it seems to me, with a bill that's packed with more than $100 billion in corporate and personal tax breaks, for among others the auto racing body NASCAR, there's a whole lot of fungible cash floating around. Pork may be the least of our worries. History suggests we should watch for buying votes.
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Last edited by Dankdude; 10-12-2008 at 06:07 PM..
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:08 PM
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Ain't fascism great?

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Old 10-12-2008, 06:10 PM
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Ain't fascism great?

Vi
For sure there are several hundred tax breaks in that bill in my state alone. Its a disgusting pile if you ask me.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:58 PM
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^^^ Yeah, what ever happened to personal responsibility?

Vi
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:08 PM
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^^^ Yeah, what ever happened to personal responsibility?

Vi
LMAO!! What's that Vi
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:36 PM
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Wait i still haven't came to understand is. WHY are there men sitting in prison for the Enron scandle. Witch IS EXACTly what these companies did. And they get bailed out??!?!?!? WTF McCain needs to point some fingers. Say some names. If he wants any chance in this election. I don't agree with half of what he says. but atleast hes not trying to bring socialism to this country. Witch by the way HAS NOT worked ANY where!!!

People are so ignorant
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Old 10-13-2008, 03:59 AM
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Sweden would disagree with you. They socialized their banks, similar to what we are doing. Because they acted quickly, they avoided a complete meltdown, and made a nice profit for their taxpayers when they later sold the assets (mainly banks) that they had temporarily socialized as an emergency measure. I believe the profit they made for their taxpayers by doing so exceeded 500% -- for every buck their taxpayers invested, they made five bucks in profit on the back end, five years later.

And what's happened here is not like Enron. What's happened this time is that there were no regulations imposed on the securities and CDS markets, so the banks went crazy with the lack of rules. When there are no rules to maintain fiscal sanity and protect the public, well, this is what happens. Both parties are guilty of allowing that lack of regulation to create this problem, but it is the Republican Party that is THE party of deregulation -- they've been eliminating regulations for 30 years, and arguably since the Depression. Apparently, they OVER-deregulated, and tada, the market is imploding as a consequence.
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Old 10-13-2008, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dankdude View Post
Bail Out or Slush Fund?

What do they say about history repeats? With four weeks left before the General Election of 2008, it's important to plan forward, but also to look back.

In the last few weeks of the 2004 campaign, while the Democratic party dithered over whether to pitch to Right or Left, George W. Bush pulled out every stop. For the affluent (and those aspiring to affluence) he promised more deregulation and tax cuts. For single issue theocratic types, he spouted stir-it-up talk about preserving straight white patriarchal elites. To those already drowning in a war economy with no safety net, W offered an appeal to primal instinct. At the level of advertising, tv and talk radio, the presidential race shrank to just one question: Who do you Trust? John Kerry – the flip flopper "girlie" man – or Bush, the-with-me-or-against me wartime president?

In this election like that one, the Right's ground troops were fed plenty of rhetoric. But Rove didn't rely on red meat alone. There was also cash. We've learned a lot about how GOP political operatives led by Rove politicized every tentacle of the federal government from the Defense Department to Justice. So it should come as no surprise to recall that in the weeks before the '04 election, Bush administration officials dispersed a mountain of government largesse in swing states. In the two weeks before Election Day, the administration announced $10 million for a church-based job training scheme in Jacksonville Florida, money for a long-awaited wildlife refuge in Minnesota and a national park in Colorado. Just days before the voting, the Bushies came up with $207 million to clean up drinking water in Columbus, Ohio.

In 2004, a government that was already in overdraft had plenty of money for pre-election favors. This year, there's more than $700 billion to dole out. We've been told the money could start being dispersed at any moment. Call me crazy, but it seems to me, with a bill that's packed with more than $100 billion in corporate and personal tax breaks, for among others the auto racing body NASCAR, there's a whole lot of fungible cash floating around. Pork may be the least of our worries. History suggests we should watch for buying votes.
Dank, that's great, except whoever wrote it is neglecting something.

Franklin Raines wasn't white, (neither is Obama) and those two nut cases are also part of the "Elite"
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Old 10-13-2008, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongulator View Post
Sweden would disagree with you. They socialized their banks, similar to what we are doing. Because they acted quickly, they avoided a complete meltdown, and made a nice profit for their taxpayers when they later sold the assets (mainly banks) that they had temporarily socialized as an emergency measure. I believe the profit they made for their taxpayers by doing so exceeded 500% -- for every buck their taxpayers invested, they made five bucks in profit on the back end, five years later.

And what's happened here is not like Enron. What's happened this time is that there were no regulations imposed on the securities and CDS markets, so the banks went crazy with the lack of rules. When there are no rules to maintain fiscal sanity and protect the public, well, this is what happens. Both parties are guilty of allowing that lack of regulation to create this problem, but it is the Republican Party that is THE party of deregulation -- they've been eliminating regulations for 30 years, and arguably since the Depression. Apparently, they OVER-deregulated, and tada, the market is imploding as a consequence.
Bongulator go study your history.

The primary problem with the Great Crash, wasn't banking deregulation. It was idiots trading on Margin, thus when they ran out of buyers and the markets headed south they were facing margin calls that forced them to liquidate their positions creating a snowball effect that lead to the Great Crash.

There was also the problem with the greatly leveraged trading houses that issued stock in their own firms up to their total leveraged value, and thus when the margin calls came, got steam rolled.

There was also massive market manipulation, especially of stock like Radio Corporation of America.

There are no real parallels between the lack of regulation in 1929 and the current "lack of regulation" now.
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Old 10-13-2008, 05:23 AM
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You understand that there is a $62,000,000,000,000 market in credit default swaps, and it is completely unregulated, right? That's sixty-two trillion dollars, or six TIMES our current national debt. When you have an unregulated market of that size, expect serious problems. Reality bears this out: we have such a market, it is unregulated, and we are experiencing serious problems.
 

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