With all the tax breaks and loop holes for big business, the oil company giveaways, the bailouts for investors, the end of SS contributions for those making over $100,000, the Bush tax cuts for the rich Etc., are we actually subsidizing the rich??

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Since it's my poll, I'll be the first to vote. Hell yes we subsidize the rich. That's the whole gist of capitalism.

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Large Corporate Farms Still Getting Lion's Share of Taxpayer Subsidies

Bush Gives Tight-Fisted Support to Bigger Farm Subsidies - New York Times

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hey medman,

i'm your second vote. time to pick on a liberal. why indulge in class warfare? do you really believe it is even mathematically possible for the rich as a group to be subsidized? no way - the rich pay the vast majority of taxes from which those subsidies come. the middle class and poor are net consumers of government services.

you make a lot of great points v. conservatives but there is no way you're right here except for exceptional circumstances.

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don;t trust me when i'm baked, i make shit up. bud stud in training - at http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal...ts-always.html and http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal...melicious.html

OK, Let's get started.
1.Oil subsidies, what about them? Drilling rebates, tax credits etc. when the profit is beyond reason.
2.The discontinuation of SS deductions once one reaches the 100,000 mark. What about that, isn't that a subsidy
3.Big agra subsidies. What about being paid to not grow crops, and why is it always the big rich farmers that get the most?
4.Tax credits for corporations, like for shipping jobs overseas.
5. Thousands of businesses and corporations that pay no taxes at all, yet rake in a gigantic profit, Arent we the middle class subsidizing them? We have to pay a percentage of our income with only a few exemptions, no-one in the middle class as an employee gets away without paying.

I could go on for hours, but you should be getting the picture by now. Every cent not paid by the rich has to be paid by the lower to middle class, and they are the ones that can afford it the least. So my contention that we the people subsidize the rich is blatant.

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i didn't say there were no subsidies, i said the rich were not net subsidized. there is a difference. while there are some subsidies for the rich, and some of the rich may be net consumers, on average the rich pay more than they get.

for example, the person that pays the max ss deduction gets less from ss than the person who pays little. that is a subsidy from the rich to the poor, not vice versa.

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don;t trust me when i'm baked, i make shit up. bud stud in training - at http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal...ts-always.html and http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal...melicious.html

Most "Rich" people don't have to pay income taxes. They don't make income, they make profits or dividends. They pay a 15% tax, you and everyone else pay a lot more. Not to mention, its easy as hell to avoid taxes. You've heard of Donald Trump going bankrupt several times - Donald Trump hasn't gone bankrupt, his corporations have. If I set up a C corp and fill it full of money in the form of profit from business activities, I can issue loans to anyone including myself, loans are not taxed, and if you are "defaulting" on the loans from your corporation, the corporation goes bankrupt. Corporations are like another person, with its own credit.

rich people pay 95% of the income taxes in this country. it is a myth that they have tax breaks that eliminate that. dividends btw are counted as ordinary income and are taxed at whatever bracket you are in.

yes, one can shield one's net worth by using a C corp. but then you are double taxing yourself and practically you cannot do what you are suggesting unless there are substantial assets of yours at risk in the corp.

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don;t trust me when i'm baked, i make shit up. bud stud in training - at http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal...ts-always.html and http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal...melicious.html

The double taxation occurs in a C corp when earnings are distributed to shareholders as dividends. The 15% I was talking about is the capital gains on sale of stock- which Im not sure if they've changed again.

What do you consider "Rich". I kinda consider Rich people the ones that live off their investments and primarily only pay capital gains. Yes you need assets in the C corp, but how are they at risk when you're only doing business with yourself? Causing your own corporate bankruptcy isnt necessarily a risky or 'bad' thing. Its just strategy.

. Not true, the max. is around 1800.00 and the Min. is around 350.00. They pay more for what they get, but they definently get more. My premis is this. If you are already rich, why should the government subsidize you at all. I am a socialist in the truest sense of the word. I believe the society should work for the betterment of all, not just the wealthy. I believe in making the workers owners of the society just like wealthy investors. If the workers actually owned the company, with a stake in profitability, don't you think the companies would be profitable. There are a few examples of this here in the good old USA.
http://www.ncba.coop/abcoop_work.cfm
http://www.greens.org/s-r/06/06-32.html

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