LED Thread regarding stalk weight difference between LED & HPS

sparkygeek said:

This is almost the sort of stuff that can help someone navigate the options to find what works best for them in their application. I say almost only because there is some information missing... Model numbers. Model Numbers point to specific systems that people can compare as closely as possible.

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good mrfs make good lights. you wont really find more than a 10% spread of efficiency difference between the best and worst fixtures of a given manufacturer. all are in a differnt class than the no name lights you have mentioned which perform poorly

sparkygeek said:

My purpose for running the estimate was for me to understand where production COB systems stood at the time of my purchase.

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yes but your light was not representative of where cobs were at the time of purchase. it was representative of what kind of components a cheap company that cares only about sales volume would use.Literally found the cheapest chip they could that actually could be called a "COB" and an equally cheap driver and sold it to you on the "COB" name alone.

sparkygeek said:

The major problem with the outrageous marketing is typically on-the-level vendors are forced to overcome a tidal wave of misinformation.

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your posts included, sadly

I run a HPS flower light and after much thought decided to switch from a MH veg light to a LED veg light to dip my toe's in the water so to speak. I ended up with strips for a couple of reasons.

Yes, the LED change can be confusing, I think I said something like that much earlier in the thread but those who think that LED does not compare favourably with HPS are way behind the times. They compare more to DE than HPS and we all know that that's a jump worth having if your environment allows. W for W an LED puts out more light than a MH/HPS/CFL/Fluro/Incandescent.

Sure your going to get some haters but the two most vehement anti LED arguments are from people who's points don't make much sense.. One doesn't know what light he had and the other wont say what light he uses..

If anyone who is thinking of going to LED and is confused by, well lets be frank its by the LED industry themselves, then your not alone. But the tech is the future and it does work and work well. The thread posted earlier where the grower swapped DE for LED proves that. Way less watts used for the same yield.

I' not sure on how my spyder x plus stacks up against hid but from what I have seen in a buddys room they work damn well. I did not witness a dry weight but he told me he is consistently pulling 2.2 and up per fixture and told me he has 2 more on order to replace his 1000watt DE hps lights in his second room. I will be running 1 fixture in a 4.7x4.7x6.5 sun hut I'm hoping soon. He did mention about stalks being thicker on (some) strains and about the same on others. Take this for what I have been told but I can tell you they preform very well in his room with co2. Better than a DE 1000 watt hps.... who knows. If up and running soon I will keep an eye on stalk size/weight and post back but it may be a while as I am trying to move into new house. This topic is interesting. If anyone has input with high end led let' hear it.

Lucky Luke said:

I run a HPS flower light and after much thought decided to switch from a MH veg light to a LED veg light to dip my toe's in the water so to speak. I ended up with strips for a couple of reasons.

Yes, the LED change can be confusing, I think I said something like that much earlier in the thread but those who think that LED does not compare favourably with HPS are way behind the times. They compare more to DE than HPS and we all know that that's a jump worth having if your environment allows. W for W an LED puts out more light than a MH/HPS/CFL/Fluro/Incandescent.

Sure your going to get some haters but the two most vehement anti LED arguments are from people who's points don't make much sense.. One doesn't know what light he had and the other wont say what light he uses..

If anyone who is thinking of going to LED and is confused by, well lets be frank its by the LED industry themselves, then your not alone. But the tech is the future and it does work and work well. The thread posted earlier where the grower swapped DE for LED proves that. Way less watts used for the same yield.

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Did not see this post but I most def. Agree led is the future of indoor lighting!

Diesel0889 said:

I' not sure on how my spyder x plus stacks up against hid but . . .

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Not sure if your buddy already ordered his Spyders, and I'm a bit unclear as to whether or not you already own one or are planning on getting one, but you should really look into HLG's offerings.

Is that Spyder led really $1500, or am I looking at the wrong one?

Johnny Lawrence said:

Not sure if your buddy already ordered his Spyders, and I'm a bit unclear as to whether or not you already own one or are planning on getting one, but you should really look into HLG's offerings.

Is that Spyder led really $1500, or am I looking at the wrong one?

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Yes he ordered 2 more because he said they are matching his DE fixtures for yeild and as far as me yes I own one because of what I have seen in his room. I have not had the pleaure of useing it yet unfortunatey . Ya it' alot of money but so was the timber I was going to buy and still may some day to do a side by side with cuts off the same mom. Timber emailed back and forth with me about the spyder x plus and his light and the way he talked great about both and didnt make his the superior one got me thinking I need to buy from them at some point. They have GREAT customer service! And told me alot if his customers run both his and the spyder x plus.

Im just trying to move and get my tent up again... The suspense is killing me!!! By the way thank you for the pm a while back I very much appreciated that and I'm not sure I ever thanked you for all the info you gave me. It' guys like you that make this forum as helpful as it is and a good environment to hang out in... Thank You! And sadly yes it was 1500 or 1600 with the dimming/light controllr lol.. It will pay for itself I'm sure but it was a chunk of change upfront...but man what a light!! I had to buy one to try in my 4x4 and figure it fits perfect for great coverage..

Diesel0889 said:

Yes he ordered 2 more because he said they are matching his DE fixtures for yeild and as far as me yes I own one because of what I have seen in his room. I have not had the pleaure of useing it yet unfortunatey . Ya it' alot of money but so was the timber I was going to buy and still may some day to do a side by side with cuts off the same mom. Timber emailed back and forth with me about the spyder x plus and his light and the way he talked great about both and didnt make his the superior one got me thinking I need to buy from them at some point. They have GREAT customer service! And told me alot if his customers run both his and the spyder x plus.

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Yeah, Dan's great, and Timber is generally the first company that I point people to when they're searching for a COB based fixture.

And for future reference, the HLG 600 has better performance at half the cost.
https://growerslights.com/products/horticulture-lighting-group-600h-quantum-board-led-kit

Leds have been touted as the future for so long if they havent become the future by now they never will be.

They have very little evolution and all these generations and tech is just simple modifications which cost a lot.

From a non led point of view it just looks like another thing that ripped a load of growers off and again and again and again till they exhausted all the possible cheap mods you can add onto a low wattage diode.

Kingrow1 said:

Led growers use par in a simplistic way

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Yes we do. It is quite simple actually. When compared to HID lighting , one can achieve larger footprints of suitable concentrations of PAR range photons, by utilizing LEDs , to grow cannabis, with the same energy consumption.

Johnny Lawrence said:

And for future reference, the HLG 600 has better performance at half the cost.

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if thats true and my wife allows ill publicly hand job you.

CobKits said:

good mrfs make good lights. you wont really find more than a 10% spread of efficiency difference between the best and worst fixtures of a given manufacturer. all are in a differnt class than the no name lights you have mentioned which perform poorly

yes but your light was not representative of where cobs were at the time of purchase. it was representative of what kind of components a cheap company that cares only about sales volume would use.Literally found the cheapest chip they could that actually could be called a "COB" and an equally cheap driver and sold it to you on the "COB" name alone.

your posts included, sadly

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Hello Mr. CobKits! Pleasure to have you in the debate. I think you’re just the person I was waiting for to drop in and share his knowledge. I have 2 side by side hyper dialed in 8’ x 12’ rooms with 18-20 gallon Rubbermaid Brute DWC bins bubbling away. 6-600 watt hps in each.
8.5 months of the year I can dial in any temp. How would you light up both rooms so that I can first show the results with HPS lights (6 hortilux super hps 600 with adjusta wing avengers retracted to the 3rd adjustment hole) and than the superior results of what could be done with 2 side by side LED rooms. How would you light an 8’ x 12’ footprint to go head-to-head with 3600 watts of HPS ? I will buy your wares in Sep 2018 if you can suggest an LED lighting strategy. Keep in mind that money means nothing to me.

Chip Green said:

Yes we do. It is quite simple actually. When compared to HID lighting , one can achieve larger footprints of suitable concentrations of PAR range photons, by utilizing LEDs , to grow cannabis, with the same energy consumption.

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Not a chance, it lacks penetration which is a lot harder to get from multiple low wattage leds.

Par in simple forms didnt work well, leds are a prime example of how far off real biology and physics your maths are, on paper no one would ever buy anything else, real world and they dont work like on paper or we would see close to double the bud in most led grows (i refer to the earlier laughable claim leds make on growing twice that of hps).

If you cant convince me of the maths and science then id say your on shaky ground, been reading too many growmau sucker threads....

a mongo frog said:

if thats true and my wife allows ill publicly hand job you.

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I'm game, but you'll have to get me drunk first.

By the way, after researching this weekend, I’m almost certain that my upcoming LED test will be trounced by the HPS. I’m just crazy enough to use my strictly controlled laboratory conditions to prove that LED has no chance. I wouldn’t mind eating that last statement either because if it works better I would benefit from it. Should be fun to do a series of LED v HPS journals no matter what the outcome.
We’ll just have to wait until Nov 2018 to see what develops.

Kingrow1 said:

Not a chance, it lacks penetration which is a lot harder to get from multiple low wattage leds.

Par in simple forms didnt work well, leds are a prime example of how far off real biology and physics your maths are, on paper no one would ever buy anything else, real world and they dont work like on paper or we would see close to double the bud in most led grows (i refer to the earlier laughable claim leds make on growing twice that of hps).

If you cant convince me of the maths and science then id say your on shaky ground, been reading too many growmau sucker threads....

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What about greengrass growers thread? Dude is growing bushes. I think "we" lost dude, its time to change. At least see and if its no good then we can let people know.

HydroEnthused said:

By the way, after researching this weekend, I’m almost certain that my upcoming LED test will be trounced by the HPS. I’m just crazy enough to use my strictly controlled laboratory conditions to prove that LED has no chance. I wouldn’t mind eating that last statement either because if it works better I would benefit from it. Should be fun to do a series of LED v HPS journals no matter what the outcome.
We’ll just have to wait until Nov 2018 to see what develops.

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Whats your wattage? What are you replacing?

a mongo frog said:

What about greengrass growers thread? Dude is growing bushes. I think "we" lost dude, its time to change. At least see and if its no good then we can let people know.

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There is a lot wrong with that grow thread as an led comparison if you re-read it objectively, i did point out before plus the wattage he is trying to replace plus the grams he has to hit dried... well you guys put a tall order in with that grow for topshelf, my guess is he wont come close to any of your led maths

CobKits said:

good mrfs make good lights. you wont really find more than a 10% spread of efficiency difference between the best and worst fixtures of a given manufacturer. all are in a differnt class than the no name lights you have mentioned which perform poorly

yes but your light was not representative of where cobs were at the time of purchase. it was representative of what kind of components a cheap company that cares only about sales volume would use.Literally found the cheapest chip they could that actually could be called a "COB" and an equally cheap driver and sold it to you on the "COB" name alone.

your posts included, sadly

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Since you cut my quotes to seemingly try to support your argument I can no longer take anything you say any more seriously than the troll(s) on this thread. You clearly don't like LEDs shown in the proper light, which was my only goal. I asked questions that are relevant which is why you chose not to answer my question. My COB light was exactly representative of where COB manufacturing was last year... And that's why you passed on my question regarding currently manufactured COB systems. Trying to fit everyone's experiences in the same category just shows you have no grasp on the challenges LEDs face... Your arguments are so flimsy and uninformed, I can see why you are hostile to my comments. Best of luck!

sparkygeek said:

Since you cut my quotes to seemingly try to support your argument I can no longer take anything you say any more seriously than the troll(s) on this thread.

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No, he cut up your quotes so that he could answer each part of your post specifically. He did so in an attempt to be helpful and educate you. He also did so for clarity - sorta like what I'm doing here.

sparkygeek said:

You clearly don't like LEDs shown in the proper light, which was my only goal.

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What is your goal? You are seriously all over the place. Nobody understands you.

sparkygeek said:

I asked questions that are relevant which is why you chose not to answer my question.

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Huh?

sparkygeek said:

My COB light was exactly representative of where COB manufacturing was last year...

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See, and this is the problem. First you were claiming it was a "first gen COB", whatever the fuck that means. now you're claiming it's tech from last year. Well, until you tell us specifics about your COB, which you have failed to do for page upon page now, nobody can discuss COB technology with you.

Again, what type of COB is it? Driver? If you bought a pre-built COB, who was the manufacturer? What's it say on the outside of the case? Model number?

sparkygeek said:

And that's why you passed on my question regarding currently manufactured COB systems.

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He passed on it because you aren't providing specifics. Why are you being so shady? Just tell us what type of COB you bought. Why is this so difficult?

sparkygeek said:

Trying to fit everyone's experiences in the same category just shows you have no grasp on the challenges LEDs face...

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This is laugh-out-loud funny, when you consider who you're responding to.

No, seriously - good stuff. Comedy gold.

sparkygeek said:

Your arguments are so flimsy and uninformed, I can see why you are hostile to my comments. Best of luck!

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You've lost the plot, son.

Kingrow1 said:

They have very little evolution and all these generations and tech is just simple modifications which cost a lot.

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Well not on the consumer end, LEDs at a given efficacy cost 1/10 of what they did 5 years ago.