atomicDETH
Well-Known Member
I have 400 watt Vero 29 and is fantastic but been wanting to buy the hlg 550. Seems like a good buy for 840$
New style Samsung LM561C Board
- Thread starter chuckduck
- Start date
HamNEggs
Well-Known Member
I picked up 3 of the alternate 304 boards just for grins. I mounted them to a 3 x 1 1/8th 6092 aluminum sheet. Running on an HLG-240H-C2100B. I am finishing the current run of chucks on these and I would say after a couple weeks things seem to be going well. These are taking the place of 4 90 cri CXM22's. Temps in the tent are a little lower now which given the winter I could do without. I do appreciate the even coverage more than anything.
Hopefully I’ll get to it tonight.
CobKits
Well-Known Member
they look like nicely built boards. it will be a little while before i get a chance to test it.
chuckduck
Well-Known Member
No prob. As long as it's still on your agenda. When you do I'll put that info on the initial post.
chuckduck
Well-Known Member
Shoot just assumed their would be an edit button. Bummer. Guess people will just have to read the whole thing. Maybe throw in a summary every ten pages. Anyway, looking forward to hearing how the testing goes.
Johnnycannaseed1
Well-Known Member
"What is a quality control paper" in all likelihood not worth the paper it is printed.
Back in the day, I used to buy induction lamps from China. After having many QC issues with many factories I settled on working with YML for a brief period (yes I am calling them out in the spirit of Public interest). I got to become good friends with one of their sales reps and after having issues with YML components, he revealed all to me. He told me how most of the certification is forged and QC is lacking to say the least.
He then went on to tell me how YML got an order for just 0ver 9 million usd and charged the customer for nano-reflective paint. Needless to say, the reflectors did not come supplied with the "Paid for" Nano-paint, which ended with a seriously pissed customer. Bear in mind, at the time YML was No2 in the world when it comes to supplying induction lamps.
He also told me how he was against such practices and felt embarrassed by what was going on, but sadly the Chinese economic structure is such, and our demands for "Cheapness" as prawnconnery so rightly pointed out, has created a nightmarish situation, whereby the bottom line has been driven into the ground and Chinese workers desperate to keep their jobs and put food on their table will say anything to get the sale.
Another thing he told me, which I found both interesting and telling, is that even Chinese consumers do not trust Chinese manufacturers, and he asked me if I had heard about the "Chinese Milk Scandal" needless to say it is shocking what happened, and such sentiments serve only to reflect a lot of what Prawn was saying,
In this world, you really do get what you pay for. Me personally I would rather stick with those I know have worked hard to build up a trusted reputation, rather than deal with Rip Off Merchants who are renowned for their untrustworthiness, on the off chance that I might get a bargain.
You need to ask yourselves why stuff is really that cheap? It's cheap for a reason, and not a good one either.
This thread only serves to prove, that all that glitters is not Gold. Ultimately you get what you pay for. Cheapness Buyers Beware!
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ANC
Well-Known Member
One of the things white people do in China is called white monkey work.
If it sounds racist, it is because the Chinese are not exactly PC.
Anyway this involves fraud in the form that they are paid to pretend to be engineers or architects or whatever during business meetings to make the companies look more legit.
If it sounds racist, it is because the Chinese are not exactly PC.
Anyway this involves fraud in the form that they are paid to pretend to be engineers or architects or whatever during business meetings to make the companies look more legit.
Viceman666
Well-Known Member
Somewhat I agree with you with most of it.. but when you take a minute to think about it and realize that the quantum boards were build in china before they recently made the business decision to have the qb288 made in usa.. it goes a long way telling you that id get a similar quality of their board if I order from china directly like they used to do while saving on their markup.. im not saying the QB are not worth the price they are being sold. Im just saying I was willing to get whatever China will send me at the price they gave m knowing id have similar quality but especially similar perfomance...
What makes it so interesting to order those lm561 board from china is there isnt much pieces to assemble together.. pcb boards have existed for years.. so at that point its just a matter of putting the led on the boards.. the lm561c are fairly cheap so really there isnt much reason to use anything else or create their own fake led light to save money..
Thats just my two cents
Humple
Well-Known Member
I just don't see the individual consumer having the clout to hold these Chinese manufacturers accountable. I don't believe that the average Joe will be treated with the same respect as companies that have long-term contracts, and that are buying a hell of a lot more than just a few boards for a light or two.
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
Care to elaborate?
PhenoMenal
Well-Known Member
im very happy with my Chinese-manufactured QB's (2 x 304 = ~200W), not just because it saved me a lot of money, but because a lux meter showed that it absolutely blew my 400w MarsII and 300w ViparSpectra out of the water... plus i'm using less electricity.
Yes there are dodgy (Chinese/insert any country) manufacturers, but there are also a lot of Chinese manufacturers that build most consumables today, and they rely on consistency to stay afloat. For Alibaba manufacturers for example, just make sure they have a Gold rating. As with everything in life we must treat everything on its individual merits -- ie. you cannot compare one company to another... gotta treat each company on their own individual merits.
Yes there are dodgy (Chinese/insert any country) manufacturers, but there are also a lot of Chinese manufacturers that build most consumables today, and they rely on consistency to stay afloat. For Alibaba manufacturers for example, just make sure they have a Gold rating. As with everything in life we must treat everything on its individual merits -- ie. you cannot compare one company to another... gotta treat each company on their own individual merits.
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Johnnycannaseed1
Well-Known Member
I hear ya, but I feel you have missed a major point, that is someone or two worked hard to create that original QB.
In all likelihood, they probably went to China sat down with the manufacturer with a completed MTO, then gave them a BOQ and BOM, along with a step by step process of how to manufacture, check and store the original QB's to ensure rigid manufacturing and quality control processes are in place.
How many hours do you think were spent in the planning, testing, and development stages before the first QB was ever made?
Like you say pcb boards have existed for years, and during all that time guess what. Not one QB in sight, in all that time.
Not until the rip off merchants clocked onto what a great product it was, and probably started selling the QB's right out the back door as they normally do. All the while profiting off some else's hard-earned hours. That same someone who probably showed them how to manufacture the board to that standard of quality. And this is how they are repaid. Now hardly fair, is it?
Especially as an argument could be made that this iteration of the Lm561 board would not be in existence had it not been for its original creator.
QB's have blatantly been ripped off. But I guess until you have spent many a long hour creating your own product only to then watch as it too is ripped off, you are not going understand how that feels, nor how wrong it is to do such a thing.
It is so wrong as RIU members to knowingly contribute to the purchase of a product that has been ripped off, by a manufacturer that tried to put the original creator out of business just because he had the manufacturing capability to do so. By simply increasing the volume of production in order to drive the price down. Talk about biting the hand that fed you.
Where's the RIU community spirit and community support in any of that?
But I guess different strokes for different folks and all that, screw morals, so long as it's cheap that's all that matters riiight!
nc208
Well-Known Member
What about Nextlight?
so HLG ripped off nextlight
what HLG did was to make a product line that fit the small home DIY kit grower really well and avoided the need for UL or ETL cert. kudos for them! great stuff. but in reality there really isn't much patentable or truly proprietary tech.
By the way HLG is marketing and selling they don't really care about much else. The price points for basic components is too high for a systems integrator to make their own style of lights. That invites competition and copy cats.
A little relevance though. This entire line of technology innovation was driven by scale production of chips for the T8, T12 fluoro replacement market. so who is really copying who ?
Johnnycannaseed1
Well-Known Member
From what I can remember QB's and the Next light used the same chips, but that is where the similarities began and ended.
After that you had 2 totally different products one was a completed light aimed at non-diyers.
The other product filled a niche gap in the market during the COB craze, and was aimed at the DIY end of the market.
Sure they both used the same chips, but their paths diverged into 2 completely different products aimed at different markets. Would you call that copying? Because I certainly see no evidence of that. Are we then going to argue, "well all light manufacturers are copying the sun" so none of them has an original idea?.
Generally, what has been happening is there has been a steady progression of lighting technology, which is a good thing. But what's been happening with regards to Chinese Lm561 boards is nothing more than a blatant rip off of a good idea, not cool.
Comparing the Next light to a Quantum Board, is like comparing Apples to Oranges. Yeah they are both sweet fruits but that's about all they have in common with each other.
There is a clear distinction between outright Copying and Technological progression.
After that you had 2 totally different products one was a completed light aimed at non-diyers.
The other product filled a niche gap in the market during the COB craze, and was aimed at the DIY end of the market.
Sure they both used the same chips, but their paths diverged into 2 completely different products aimed at different markets. Would you call that copying? Because I certainly see no evidence of that. Are we then going to argue, "well all light manufacturers are copying the sun" so none of them has an original idea?.
Generally, what has been happening is there has been a steady progression of lighting technology, which is a good thing. But what's been happening with regards to Chinese Lm561 boards is nothing more than a blatant rip off of a good idea, not cool.
Comparing the Next light to a Quantum Board, is like comparing Apples to Oranges. Yeah they are both sweet fruits but that's about all they have in common with each other.
There is a clear distinction between outright Copying and Technological progression.
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Viceman666
Well-Known Member
LED in street lights use the same concept as LED on a board - it's nothing new. The layout of the led on the board to be honest can literally be ANYTHING as long as you get the spread, and the power, you'll be able to grow good. That's why so many people uses strips right now.
As I've mentioned I have all the respect for the HLG quantum board and their owners.. They spent time and energy materializing their concept and lots of try and errors to make it up to the final product.. I've recommended them to many people and will keep doing it because I think it is a great product, but those who would like to pay less for a similar product, I'll be happy to propose them a Chinese copy instead of having them buy blurple lights (because they suck).
They are selling their lights so they needed a minimum of quality as they have some liability towards the customers they sell to - #1 rule of any businesses in America. That guarantees has a price as well as the marketing or their brand, their labor cost, and R&D cost, etc. It's like buying "fake" Nike shoes from China - they are not of the same quality as the original (close to), but do what they are suppose to do (you can walk in them {-- yes you read that right), and looks exactly the same as the original. Made in china just mean cheap labor, so by ordering from china, I save on the marketing, their cost for American labor and all the R&D money they spent, are spending, and will be spending for their next generation lights.
Cheap Chinese copy have been around us for so many years in so many different area. I'm sure you already bought an HDMI cable in your life, did you buy the Monster cable priced at 100$ for 1 feet or the store brand at 30$ for 3 feet (SURPRISE - BOTH will show you an imagine on your TV) ? Even big retailer like Best Buy have been using Chinese "copy" for years for their own brand. It's nothing new. China is just cheaper - but YES you have overall lower quality because of lower quality control - we can't argue here.
I can already predict you what's gonna happen next. New LEDs chips with better efficiency than LM561C and more affordable that we'll put on a PCB board in about the same layout and get more lights for the same power. HLG did a great job on packaging a ready to go product with much higher quality control then what you get from China - so you are sure to get what you paid for, but sometimes the risk is worth the try.