im4satori
Well-Known Member
id say they look like they could go longer... id go ten or even 10 1/2 and cut the N way down
Getting to the bottom of the Phosphorus question in flower
- Thread starter Jennygrows2
- Start date
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
They look like they have more than a week to go yet.
Nice screen supported colas. Are you doing a ScroG next time?
Nice screen supported colas. Are you doing a ScroG next time?
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
The pics are,terrible. Ill take up close bud shots when I get home. Most of the pistils are receeded on the top buds.
I grew this twice before and cut at 8 weeks, but ended up with OK product that smelled grassy.
Can I,maintain,enough Ca if I cut N down a lot? Most of my,N is,coming from calcium nitrate
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
Is that not a scrog?
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
When you do a proper ScroG you grow the branches horizontally along the screen tying down the grow tips with twist ties loosely. As side branches come out you tie them down too until the whole screen is almost covered in branches criss-crossing each other then you flower and you'd have at least double the yield you are getting of that nice bunch of colas. For 8oz off a 2x2 screen you'll need to do that. Takes longer in veg by 4 weeks or so but well worth it for all the extra bud.
Pic of how I setup my DWC ScroG screen That one's about 4 square feet at 20x26" and I got 8oz of bud and 7oz of sugar trim and popcorn for keif and oil. No need for a frame and as the plants grow they push up so that screen, sheep fencing, just hangs on baling wire and can "float" or be secured so all that bud weight doesn't push the net pots into the tub. lol
As the branches grow along the screen horizontally you just use short pieces of twist ties to lash to the wire. If I want to cross a gap I just tie in a piece if wire or long twist tie off a roll to bridge the gap and tie the grow tip to. (Note copper wire in center of screen) . Once it's grown along you can remove the ties further back and use them up front as the branch is now trained to stay flat. When a grow tip is forced to be on the horizontal the side branches grow out a lot faster. I was reading something about how foliar spraying with sucrose will make side branches grow out at twice the rate even with plants grown the regular way standing up. Will get some at the health food store to try soon.
I did this yesterday to support 3 too tall CBD girls. Using the same type of screen, 4x4, with bamboo sticks around the edges to keep it flat I have it hanging on two screw hooks at the back and hung from chains at the front and just let them flop over on the screen. They will get tied down a bit but I flipped to 12/12 last night so it's just another screen supported grow and not a real ScroG. The screen will be sloped down around 30 degrees but can be easily raised to get under to water the plants. Got a 1000W Super HPS hanging over them.
Pic of how I setup my DWC ScroG screen That one's about 4 square feet at 20x26" and I got 8oz of bud and 7oz of sugar trim and popcorn for keif and oil. No need for a frame and as the plants grow they push up so that screen, sheep fencing, just hangs on baling wire and can "float" or be secured so all that bud weight doesn't push the net pots into the tub. lol
As the branches grow along the screen horizontally you just use short pieces of twist ties to lash to the wire. If I want to cross a gap I just tie in a piece if wire or long twist tie off a roll to bridge the gap and tie the grow tip to. (Note copper wire in center of screen) . Once it's grown along you can remove the ties further back and use them up front as the branch is now trained to stay flat. When a grow tip is forced to be on the horizontal the side branches grow out a lot faster. I was reading something about how foliar spraying with sucrose will make side branches grow out at twice the rate even with plants grown the regular way standing up. Will get some at the health food store to try soon.
I did this yesterday to support 3 too tall CBD girls. Using the same type of screen, 4x4, with bamboo sticks around the edges to keep it flat I have it hanging on two screw hooks at the back and hung from chains at the front and just let them flop over on the screen. They will get tied down a bit but I flipped to 12/12 last night so it's just another screen supported grow and not a real ScroG. The screen will be sloped down around 30 degrees but can be easily raised to get under to water the plants. Got a 1000W Super HPS hanging over them.
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
The branches are like that. You just cant see because of all the foliage.When you do a proper ScroG you grow the branches horizontally along the screen tying down the grow tips with twist ties loosely. As side branches come out you tie them down too until the whole screen is almost covered in branches criss-crossing each other then you flower and you'd have at least double the yield you are getting of that nice bunch of colas. For 8oz off a 2x2 screen you'll need to do that. Takes longer in veg by 4 weeks or so but well worth it for all the extra bud.
Pic of how I setup my DWC ScroG screen That one's about 4 square feet at 20x26" and I got 8oz of bud and 7oz of sugar trim and popcorn for keif and oil. No need for a frame and as the plants grow they push up so that screen, sheep fencing, just hangs on baling wire and can "float" or be secured so all that bud weight doesn't push the net pots into the tub. lol
View attachment 4057154
As the branches grow along the screen horizontally you just use short pieces of twist ties to lash to the wire. If I want to cross a gap I just tie in a piece if wire or long twist tie off a roll to bridge the gap and tie the grow tip to. (Note copper wire in center of screen) . Once it's grown along you can remove the ties further back and use them up front as the branch is now trained to stay flat. When a grow tip is forced to be on the horizontal the side branches grow out a lot faster. I was reading something about how foliar spraying with sucrose will make side branches grow out at twice the rate even with plants grown the regular way standing up. Will get some at the health food store to try soon.
View attachment 4057157
I did this yesterday to support 3 too tall CBD girls. Using the same type of screen, 4x4, with bamboo sticks around the edges to keep it flat I have it hanging on two screw hooks at the back and hung from chains at the front and just let them flop over on the screen. They will get tied down a bit but I flipped to 12/12 last night so it's just another screen supported grow and not a real ScroG. The screen will be sloped down around 30 degrees but can be easily raised to get under to water the plants. Got a 1000W Super HPS hanging over them.
View attachment 4057159
Chexk out my thread you will see the pictures as it grew up.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
I wont go into any long details about cation (pronounced cat-ion) relationships, you likely know something about it and if someone doesn't they can goggle it easily
but its generally known theres a relationship or balance between elements particularly that between potassium, calcium and magnesium
there is range and as long as your within that range your plants will sort itself out
speaking in terms of ratios between
potassium: Calcium: magnesium
or
K:Ca:Mg
the range is
3:2:1 to 4:2:1
for example
if your final solution was 150ppm K
and you wanted a 3:2:1 ratio (which would be the top of the range)
that's +/-
150ppm K
100ppm Ca
50ppm Mg
and if you wanted a 4:2:1 ratio (which would be the bottom of the range)
that's +/-
150ppm K
75ppm Ca
38ppm Mg
or
200ppm K
100ppm Ca
50ppm Mg
depending on your EC range
having said that
your mix per gallon
calcium nitrate 1.5 grams
mkp 0.5 grams
Mg-s 1 gram
mix 2 grams
88ppm N
55ppm P
151ppm K
75ppm Ca
42ppm Mg
looks pretty go for the bottom of the range (with a 2:1 - K:Ca ratio)....and depending on whats in your source water ...for example if you have 10ppm Ca in your source water you might be able to drop the calcium nitrate down to 1.3 grams per gallon
typically youd expect to see the ratio lean toward a 4:2:1 ratio in late flower as the K needs increase and you keep the 3:2:1 range during veg
I tend to try and keep the 3:2:1 ratio always but I have more flexibility to do so... and I run DTW which would be different than a recirculating system since the reservoir ratios is in consent change with each pass thru the roots in a closed /recirculating system which could be partly a consideration for fine tuning/plant needs/nutrient ratios
im just guessing, but looing at your current mix ratio and also your pictures and what you said about not having magnesium def at higher EC feeds but having it at low EC feeds
what I suspect is
if your EC is high enough to sustain your magnesium needs then the ppm # for N must be very high proportionately
when you look at the mix your currently mixing the magnesium is very low proportionally to the rest of the numbers
I hope im making sense
but, for you to reach the plants magnesium needs theres going to be a large number in ppm on the N...unless you happen to carry a substantial amount of magnesium in your source water
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im4satori
Well-Known Member
of course;
those formulas are set up to balance your nutrient ratios or plant needs
your EC needs may vary from mine therefore you may find running those exact numbers to be slightly hot or to weak in strength
but in the end the mix wont change
for example,
if your reservoir was 50 gallons
youd fill the reservoir up half way (25 gallons +/-), add your salts for 50 gallons per the recipe; then top off with water until you reach your desired EC
then youd make decisions to increase or decrease the EC based on your reservoir log
I always recommend a daily log to track the changes of a reservoir
not set in stone, but as a rule!
EC goes up PH goes down = lower your EC
EC goes down PH goes up = raise your EC
EC goes down very slowly and ph climbs very slowly is good, but that will also be determined by the size of your reservoir... a large reservoir will show these changes more slowly and so you gotta get a feel for your set up
those formulas are set up to balance your nutrient ratios or plant needs
your EC needs may vary from mine therefore you may find running those exact numbers to be slightly hot or to weak in strength
but in the end the mix wont change
for example,
if your reservoir was 50 gallons
youd fill the reservoir up half way (25 gallons +/-), add your salts for 50 gallons per the recipe; then top off with water until you reach your desired EC
then youd make decisions to increase or decrease the EC based on your reservoir log
I always recommend a daily log to track the changes of a reservoir
not set in stone, but as a rule!
EC goes up PH goes down = lower your EC
EC goes down PH goes up = raise your EC
EC goes down very slowly and ph climbs very slowly is good, but that will also be determined by the size of your reservoir... a large reservoir will show these changes more slowly and so you gotta get a feel for your set up
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Ok, but you didn't do it long enough or I wouldn't be seeing any screen at all.
To each their own.
To each their own.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
I wasn't talking to you
and
I went and looked at your plant pics the last time you where a smart ass to me, an I must say....based on your pictures, you should be taking fucking notes
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
@im4satori Yeah im familiar with mulders chart explaining antagonistic and protagonist nutrient relationships and the 4:2:1 K Ca Mg. Thats what the lucas formula is based on and jacks 3-2-1 matches that.
Mostly the Mg def comes from when im not keeping up with the pH. Now that my buffer is almost 30gal per plant my pH is solid and dont run into Mg def. Im a light feeder. 1.2EC max in flower
Mostly the Mg def comes from when im not keeping up with the pH. Now that my buffer is almost 30gal per plant my pH is solid and dont run into Mg def. Im a light feeder. 1.2EC max in flower
firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
I put them,under screen when i put them to flower. I tucked them under as they were taller than the screen.
Its not perfect but its def. Not just growing thru the screen. Theres a lot of tucking.
1St time scrogging this strain.
Itll get better
im4satori
Well-Known Member
I figured you new all that,
I had just considered the original thread starter in my long explained response lol
I also have a habit of double spacing as it makes it easier to read sometimes if you have health issue or concentration issues related to health problems and its something I do often out of habit I guess
those mixes should be right around EC1.2 +/- a small degree
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firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
This is what they look like day 59 from flip. I was thinking another week or two tops
Jennygrows2
Member
Using P205 and K20 multipliers with Maxibloom powder (5-15-14) the NPK ratio is 5:6.6:11.62 or approximately 6:7:12 (1:1:2)
With Calcium at 5% and Mg at 3.5% it seems like it's pretty close to the 4:2:1 ratio.
Seems like a pretty good dry fertilizer solution. Any Maxibloom detractors? Why go with Jacks or a custom mix rather than Maxibloom?
With Calcium at 5% and Mg at 3.5% it seems like it's pretty close to the 4:2:1 ratio.
Seems like a pretty good dry fertilizer solution. Any Maxibloom detractors? Why go with Jacks or a custom mix rather than Maxibloom?
im4satori
Well-Known Member
your still confused
your not looking to make ratios 1:1:2 based on the NPK % amounts
the % amount has to be first converted into PPM
this is way above your head and not something you should be concerned with yet
just get yourself some GH f3 part or floranova and follow instructions ...
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I wasn't talking to you either and would prefer not to. To me your opinion is worth about two dead flies and your condescending manner showcases your narcissism and bi-polar tendencies.
Not that you care but I recently found out that a leaky appendix the last 5 years has been what has has caused my debilitating fatigue and kept me from attending to my plants and other things at any but the most basic levels. That was remedied recently and I'm feeling better and more positive every day so expect more of this soon.
Jennygrows2
Member
It is a little above my head but I'm trying to learn.
N 100
P 132
K 232
Ca 100
Mg 70
But PPM values would need to be adjusted based on the atomic mass of each element right?
Adjusted for atomic mass I'm coming up with the following numbers
N 100
P 50
K 145
Ca 65
Mg 27
A little bit of Cal/Mag (or using tap water) and the values would be in line with your recommendations yes?
Assuming equal atomic mass and using the actual ratios in Maxibloom not rounding off (5:6.6:11.62 ) Maxibloom powder can produce a solution like this:
N 100
P 132
K 232
Ca 100
Mg 70
But PPM values would need to be adjusted based on the atomic mass of each element right?
Adjusted for atomic mass I'm coming up with the following numbers
N 100
P 50
K 145
Ca 65
Mg 27
A little bit of Cal/Mag (or using tap water) and the values would be in line with your recommendations yes?
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
agreed. although i'd put floranova bloom ahead of the 3 part in my opinion.
maxibloom has been working great for me the last 2 grows. i've been adding that bio ag tm-7 for this whole grow and no problems.
Jennygrows2
Member
My math for P was off. These should be valid PPMs possible with Maxibloom
N 100
P 65
K 145
Ca 40
Mg 27
N 100
P 65
K 145
Ca 40
Mg 27