Getting to the bottom of the Phosphorus question in flower

Derived From:
Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Muriate of Potash, Iron Chelate (DTPA), Boric Acid, Iron Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Sulfate & Molybdic Acid

4-20-39 SDS

CHEM-GRO 4-20 HYDROPONIC 4-20-39
Mixing Instructions for 100 gallons of water
(For full strength working solution)
For standard 12 week cycle (4-Veg & 8-Flower)

4-20-39 Recipe 2017

Designed for Hemp/Cannabis growing hydroponically

How To Mix Chem-Gro Fertilizers



You also need to buy extra

Calcium Nitrate

Mag Sulfate and mix into the formula.

Recipe will be 20-20-39

im4satori said:

http://rollitup.org/t/gh-vs-cyco.940785/page-13#post-13944361

you may get something out of this thread

Click to expand...

Whats 3g/gal of jacks 5-12-26 and 2g/gal calcium,nitrate come out to on your calculator? I use this from start to finish and was curious about adjusting it to a more bloom friendly. My leaves are often borderlining N tox

jimihendrix1 said:

Derived From:
Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Muriate of Potash, Iron Chelate (DTPA), Boric Acid, Iron Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Sulfate & Molybdic Acid

4-20-39 SDS

CHEM-GRO 4-20 HYDROPONIC 4-20-39
Mixing Instructions for 100 gallons of water
(For full strength working solution)
For standard 12 week cycle (4-Veg & 8-Flower)

4-20-39 Recipe 2017

Designed for Hemp/Cannabis growing hydroponically

How To Mix Chem-Gro Fertilizers



You also need to buy extra

Calcium Nitrate

Mag Sulfate and mix into the formula.

Recipe will be 20-20-39

Click to expand...

I prefer the hydro special 5-11-26

@ttystikk uses it

firsttimeARE said:

Whats 3g/gal of jacks 5-12-26 and 2g/gal calcium,nitrate come out to on your calculator? I use this from start to finish and was curious about adjusting it to a more bloom friendly. My leaves are often borderlining N tox

Click to expand...

ive gone over this mix in great detail in some other posts

its good stuff and can mix well

give me a few and I will get back to you

Chem Gro has been making Plant Specific Fertilizer for 52 years. Since 1965.


Chem-Gro


Hydro-Gardens has been blending CHEM-GRO custom hydroponic nutrient formulas since 1965. We believe them to be the best and most accurate for each type of plant. Try it for yourself and see why we have been selling them for over 45 years.

Added Calcium Nitrate, and Mag Sulfate are to be added extra.

• 
  4-20-39 Hydroponic Formula [25lbs Bag]
  $ 62.22

firsttimeARE said:

Whats 3g/gal of jacks 5-12-26 and 2g/gal calcium,nitrate come out to on your calculator? I use this from start to finish and was curious about adjusting it to a more bloom friendly. My leaves are often borderlining N tox

Click to expand...

122 N
38 P
171 K (high but in range)
25 Mg (very low)
100 Ca


between high K and low Mg im betting your magnesium def if your not also adding Epsom at 1 gram per gallon

my info says its 3.11% magnesium
is that what your stuff says, could be different brand so let double check

jimihendrix1 said:

Chem Gro has been making Plant Specific Fertilizer for 52 years. Since 1965.


Chem-Gro


Hydro-Gardens has been blending CHEM-GRO custom hydroponic nutrient formulas since 1965. We believe them to be the best and most accurate for each type of plant. Try it for yourself and see why we have been selling them for over 45 years.

s

• 
  4-20 Hydroponic Formula [25lbs Bag]
  $ 62.22
• 

Click to expand...

yes


I like there 5-11-26 special made by the same company

but that's good stuff you got also

im4satori said:

122 N
38 P
171 K (high but in range)
25 Mg (very low)
100 Ca


between high K and low Mg im betting your magnesium def if your not also adding Epsom at 1 gram per gallon

Click to expand...

Maybe a bit when im feeding low in the beginning. Hows the math look for that? So I could probably use to reduce cano3 and add epsom salt? My leaves look too dark. What could I add to increase P and not K?

firsttimeARE said:

Whats 3g/gal of jacks 5-12-26 and 2g/gal calcium,nitrate come out to on your calculator? I use this from start to finish and was curious about adjusting it to a more bloom friendly. My leaves are often borderlining N tox

Click to expand...

bloom mix options

Calcium Nitrate 1.8 grams/G (as low as 1.4 grams in late bloom =84ppm N)
5-11-26 Mix 2 grams/G
Epsom salt 1 gram/G
mono potassium phosphate 0.5grams per gallon

N 100
P 55
K 150
Ca 90
Mg 42

https://customhydronutrients.com/monopotassium-phosphate-c-1_45_61.html

also keep in mind.. if you use phospuric acid to ph adjust then your adding additional P with it

1mls ph down per gallon adds 11.7ppm of P additionally

optional veg formulas
this is how id mix it

2 grams calcium nitrate
0.25 grams magnesium nitrate
1 gram Epsom salt
2.5 grams mix (5-11-26)

122 N
32 P
143 K
Ca 100
Mg 52


or you could do it this if you have hard water, the calcium and magnesium are slightly lower which will depend on your source water

1.7 grams calcium nitrate
0.75 grams magnesium nitrate
2.5 grams mix (5-11-26)


124ppm N
32 ppm P
143 ppm K
85 ppm Ca
40 ppm Mg

these are the numbers that I prefer most for bloom

100ppm N
75 ppm P (a bit on the high end but I don't have to add phosphoric acid to ph adjust )
150 ppm K
80 ppm Ca
50 ppm Mg

heres how I mix it

5 gallons finished concentrate = 640 gallons finished solution

mix at a rate of 1oz part A and 1 oz part B per gallon for a finished EC of 1.2 (+/-)

part A
1000 grams calcium nitrate
400 grams potassium nitrate
400 grams magnesium nitrate
64 grams iron dtpa

part B
800 grams monopotassium phosphate
1000 grams magnesium sulfate (aka Epsom salt)
5 grams solubor (boron)
7 grams Manganese sulfate
0.3 grams molybdenum
1 gram zinc sulfate
0.5 grams copper sulfate

fill two 5 gallon bucket half way with hot water

label each bucket either A or B

add fertilizer salts at weights above in corresponding buckets and stir until dissolved

then top off until buckets are full with equal portions water in each bucket


for the micro nutes youll need a good scale to measure the small increments

I buy it all here

https://customhydronutrients.com/

if growing in soil I will use this mix for veg and bloom and supplement with a little fish for extra N during veg

its a little heavy in P which some might not like but its easy to mix and nice round numbers

this mix will work good for all of bloom but some might prefer another ratio for veg with less P and more N if growing in a non buffering medium

this mix at 1oz per gallon is pretty mild at a low EC, if you prefer a stronger feed/EC increase the amount of part A&B equally

its a nice well balance mix
for bloom it has the slightly high P and yet its not lacking in N

comparatively a true lucas (1:1:2) bloom formula would look like this (in the same EC range)

75ppm N
75 ppm P
150ppm K

so my mix is like the lucas but has more N (25ppm) which is what the lucas lacks

if you compare my recipe to the floranova bloom

the floranova bloom at 9.5mls per gallon yields
100ppm N
88ppm P
146 ppm K
50ppm Mg
100 ppm calcium

so my mix is about the same but with slightly less P and slightly less Ca (source water dependent)

another option would be to just do the direct addition if your reservoir is of good size
then youd just add directly to your reservoir
per gallon
1.6 grams calcium nitrate
0.6 grams potassium nitrate
0.6 grams magnesium nitrate
1.2 grams mkp
1.6 grams magnesium sulfate
0.1 gram peters S.T.E.M. (micro nute mix) contains all the micros and the iron in one powder
(not to be used in concentrate, direct addition only )

so if your reservoir was 50 gallons

that would be
80 grams calcium nitrate
30 grams potassium nitrate
30 grams magnesium nitrate
60 grams mkp
80 grams magnesium sulfate
5 grams peters S.T.E.M


what you might do is fill the reservoir up half way...add your dry salt fertilizer powders and mix
then add water topping off until the desired ppm/EC is reached



same deal only for veg recipe
1 oz per gallon of part A&B
to make 5 gallons concentrate

part A
1300 grams calcium nitrate
400 grams potassium nitrate
400 grams magnesium nitrate
64 grams iron dtpa

part B
400 grams mkp
1000 grams magnesium sulfate
250 grams potassium sulfate
5 grams solubor (boron)
7 grams Manganese sulfate
0.3 grams molybdenum
1 gram zinc sulfate
0.5 grams copper sulfate


or direct addition per gallon

2 grams calcium nitrate
0.6 grams potassium nitrate
0.6 grams magnesium nitrate
0.6 grams mkp
1.6 grams magnesium sulfate
0.4 grams potassium sulfate
0.1 grams peters S.T.E.M.

122 N
36 P
151 K
50 Mg
100 Ca


you can plug those numbers into hydro buddy and itll give you some mix ratios

theres more than one way to get to those numbers and hydro buddy might automatic choose a different ratio of mixing to get the same result

but these numbers, like I said are easy and rounded in weights to easy whole numbers

im4satori said:

bloom mix options

Calcium Nitrate 1.8 grams/G (as low as 1.4 grams in late bloom =84ppm N)
5-11-26 Mix 2 grams/G
Epsom salt 1 gram/G
mono potassium phosphate 0.5grams per gallon

N 100
P 55
K 150
Ca 90
Mg 42

https://customhydronutrients.com/monopotassium-phosphate-c-1_45_61.html

also keep in mind.. if you use phospuric acid to ph adjust then your adding additional P with it

1mls ph down per gallon adds 11.7ppm of P additionally

Click to expand...

Ill try this out. I have epsom and MKP just didnt think I needed it.

Ive had this res all grow and just been topping off with water and nutes same ratio. Cant believe I finished a whole crop with same water.

firsttimeARE said:

Ill try this out. I have epsom and MKP just didnt think I needed it.

Ive had this res all grow and just been topping off with water and nutes same ratio. Cant believe I finished a whole crop with same water.

Click to expand...

man your nutes are so very cheap

why go so long without a change

hell...why not go drain to waste...

firsttimeARE said:

Ill try this out. I have epsom and MKP just didnt think I needed it.

Ive had this res all grow and just been topping off with water and nutes same ratio. Cant believe I finished a whole crop with same water.

Click to expand...

I do that about half the time in DWC. I try to do a complete change of nutes at the end of the stretch but often I'm in a 2 month depression and can barely feed myself much less the plants. Grow just fine and I've done side by sides with no noticeable difference between on that didn't get changed at all and one that got a change at the flip and end of stretch.

As to the P subject of this thread I use AN 3-part and start seedlings at a 1-1-1. Once established and growing vigorously I feed 3-3-1. A week before flip I feed 1-1-1 with a half dose of Big Bud, (0-15-35, 10%S) then after the stretch I go Lucas with 0-2-1 plus Big Bud and this run Bud Factor X because I got a free 500ml bottle to try out. Will be doing a side by side DWC later with it to see if it would be worth paying for. Just started my CBD girls on 12/12 and want them to give as much as they can so the last of my Bud Ignotor is getting used too. The Budz Tribe at work.

Plants need more P during the stretch but after they want a higher K to P ratio thus the formulation of the BB.

Works for me.

im4satori said:

man your nutes are so very cheap

why go so long without a change

hell...why not go drain to waste...

Click to expand...

To see if its really needed? Plants look fine to me. I spent about 75 cents on nutrients for this crop. 1.5#

im4satori said:

man your nutes are so very cheap

why go so long without a change

hell...why not go drain to waste...

Click to expand...

I tried dtw. Just wasnt getting the growth rate I grew accustomed to with DWC.

Im not gonna give up on it as I feel its an easier way of growing this plant. I just need to keep,doing what im,doing for production reasons. Cant afford to trial and error right now.

nxsov180db said:

I always dump the reservoir weekly because your plants aren't using everything in the same exact ratio as your feeding them. It's nice to have a fresh start. That is what makes drain to waste so nice.

Click to expand...

True. But with 27gal per plant the buffer room is there. Im gonna do a res change end of stretch next time. See if it changes anything.

nxsov180db said:

Yes that's a lot of buffer room. How large (weight wise) are the plants at the end? I run small reservoirs so it's more important for me to dump every so often. 20 gallons per 4x8 tent lol, sometimes I go through 10 gallons in a day lol.

Click to expand...

First time RDWC. Im hoping for 8oz per 2x2 scrog. But will be happy with at least 6

firsttimeARE said:

First time RDWC. Im hoping for 8oz per 2x2 scrog. But will be happy with at least 6

Click to expand...

Very doable. Just keep tying everything down including side branches until the screen is really full. If a branch goes off the edge let it get a few inches then turn it back to keep going. Lots of nice little colas that are easy to trim and really add to the weight, Plenty of bigger ones too. Get all the undergrowth out unless you like popcorn and smaller top colas. Don't defoliate much until after the stretch and then go easy as the buds in the shade grow fine and after taking off the big ones I let those ripen up for another 10 days or so before finishing the plant off. Reveg works too so that's an option.

DWC ScroG is my fave!

OldMedUser said:

Very doable. Just keep tying everything down including side branches until the screen is really full. If a branch goes off the edge let it get a few inches then turn it back to keep going. Lots of nice little colas that are easy to trim and really add to the weight, Plenty of bigger ones too. Get all the undergrowth out unless you like popcorn and smaller top colas. Don't defoliate much until after the stretch and then go easy as the buds in the shade grow fine and after taking off the big ones I let those ripen up for another 10 days or so before finishing the plant off. Reveg works too so that's an option.

DWC ScroG is my fave!

Click to expand...

This what they look like at week 8. I started defoliating week 7 and did another pass last night to get the bottom,buds some light as they were turning lime green. I like to cut the whole plant at harvest so im waiting till week 10. Maybe 9.5. So basically a week from now.