Percentage chance of getting a male with a "regular" seed?

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
If all plants have the ability to be male or female then feminizing wouldn't work. I'm only repeating what I read from an article that was detailing the process from seed producers themselves and explaining why some feminized seed producers crank out consistent batches of hermaphrodite seeds.

As far as red light potentially increasing the number of males there are a number of things that have been found to do exactly that and the findings from the research of some of the best known breeders have been published on it more than once.
I knew you subscribed to this and thats why I mentioned it. when you understand that chromosomes are set long before your seed arrives, and the understand that no amount of light will rearrange those chromosomes within the seed, you'll also see errors in your post. If this worked we would have no issues with sexing or fem seeds. we have hermies because still some believe as you do.

fem seeds can be made using chemicals too, on one female plant, no rooms full. chems can coax the male expression for some pollen etc. there is a difference between hermaphrodism and intersex, wiki

I can make any gentically female marijuana plant express both sexes at any time regardless of its propensity to do so.
if you google any current breeder you'll see techniques that have nothing to do with hermie seeds or pollen. growers using hermie pollen make seeds that hermie.
If you have questions I'd be happy to try and answer them. General consensus among growers and breeders today conclude that old school techniques with hermie seeding is ill. Its a new day, for about 20 years now....
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
I knew you subscribed to this and thats why I mentioned it. when you understand that chromosomes are set long before your seed arrives, and the understand that no amount of light will rearrange those chromosomes within the seed, you'll also see errors in your post. If this worked we would have no issues with sexing or fem seeds. we have hermies because still some believe as you do.

fem seeds can be made using chemicals too, on one female plant, no rooms full. chems can coax the male expression for some pollen etc. there is a difference between hermaphrodism and intersex, wiki

I can make any gentically female marijuana plant express both sexes at any time regardless of its propensity to do so.
if you google any current breeder you'll see techniques that have nothing to do with hermie seeds or pollen. growers using hermie pollen make seeds that hermie.
If you have questions I'd be happy to try and answer them. General consensus among growers and breeders today conclude that old school techniques with hermie seeding is ill. Its a new day, for about 20 years now....
You completely misunderstood what I was saying and my attempt to clarify it. I was not saying that feminized seeds are made by stressing plants into becoming hermaphrodites. I was saying that the plants with a genetic predisposition to do so are identified so they can be eliminated as mother plants that way.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
You completely misunderstood what I was saying and my attempt to clarify it. I was not saying that feminized seeds are made by stressing plants into becoming hermaphrodites. I was saying that the plants with a genetic predisposition to do so are identified so they can be eliminated as mother plants that way.
but nobody does this anymore, top strains often show male expressions. growing a room full of hermies to find out which one isnt seems strange to me, but maybe it was before my time. Not saying some dont do it that way but today not so much.
like I said I can make a genetic female show male expressions at will so they all would fail that test.
Besides .....one application of ethylene gas to a hermaphrodite mj plant will end this expression for good. Cost is about 20 bucks to treat a thousand plants. Stuffs been used for decades....compared to the cost of growing rooms of hermies to find an oddball... I'd expect competent growers/breeders to know of all decade old tools and info. your info was good at one time a long time ago its just changed now we know better. dudes used to line up thousands of seeds under red light in hopes for fems, they made themselves believe it was true, that magically they could rearrange chromosomes inside of a formed dried seed. like using spells and shit. I bet theres a thread on mj myths....
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
but nobody does this anymore, top strains often show male expressions. growing a room full of hermies to find out which one isnt seems strange to me, but maybe it was before my time. Not saying some dont do it that way but today not so much.
like I said I can make a genetic female show male expressions at will so they all would fail that test.
Besides .....one application of ethylene gas to a hermaphrodite mj plant will end this expression for good. Cost is about 20 bucks to treat a thousand plants. Stuffs been used for decades....compared to the cost of growing rooms of hermies to find an oddball... I'd expect competent growers/breeders to know of all decade old tools and info. your info was good at one time a long time ago its just changed now we know better. dudes used to line up thousands of seeds under red light in hopes for fems, they made themselves believe it was true, that magically they could rearrange chromosomes inside of a formed dried seed. like using spells and shit. I bet theres a thread on mj myths....
I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly to save and post links with my phone but a quick search turns up an article from Canna Research saying that, among other things, red light can increase the number of males. Another result from Royal Queen Seeds said that they've found that too high of a ratio of red light can lead to more instances of feminized seed turning hermaphrodite.

I see lots of people saying that sex is predetermined but even with the fem seed producers they'll tell you that you're 99.9% percent likely to get female plants from their fem seeds. There are terms like "genetic potential", "genetic expression", and "phenologicaI queues " for a reason. Environment directly effects the outcome. There are other examples from other organisms outside the plant family as well.
 
Last edited:

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
confusion may be when exactly will red light affect the sex of offspring, for example if you said red light during pollination may affect the sexual outcome of resulting seeds....I might look into that as this environmental change is a significant one during that time, so makes some sense. But if you say shine a red light on seeds to change their chromosomes right under your thumb I cant put my finger on that possibility.
Or if you said a female plant could become sexually confused with an abundance of red light I would listen, but not if you sid red light on fem seeds makes hermie plants. not sure which way you're understanding those articles.

could copy/paste articles(include source if possible)
or save it to you word document and upload it here using the upload a file button next to the post button.
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
confusion may be when exactly will red light affect the sex of offspring, for example if you said red light during pollination may affect the sexual outcome of resulting seeds....I might look into that as this environmental change is a significant one during that time, so makes some sense. But if you say shine a red light on seeds to change their chromosomes right under your thumb I cant put my finger on that possibility.
Or if you said a female plant could become sexually confused with an abundance of red light I would listen, but not if you sid red light on fem seeds makes hermie plants. not sure which way you're understanding those articles.

could copy/paste articles(include source if possible)
or save it to you word document and upload it here using the upload a file button next to the post button.
It's when the seedling is in its first few weeks of growth. I would think it's pretty obvious that I wasn't trying to say that exposing the ungerminated seed to red light would effect it's sex. There are quite a few examples of organisms that have an early development phase where outside environmental factors influence the sex.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
It's when the seedling is in its first few weeks of growth. I would think it's pretty obvious that I wasn't trying to say that exposing the ungerminated seed to red light would effect it's sex. There are quite a few examples of organisms that have an early development phase where outside environmental factors influence the sex.
sry, wasnt obvious to me. even jorge cervantes once claimed shining red light on seeds from their pack will change some to females. from there the red lighters came stomping through the crowds of yesteryear.

techniques like this rodelization guarantee fem seeds without the cost of growing rooms of herms, red light guesswork only to have to plant all those red light seeds just to see if it worked right seems strange to me.
anyone growing for female seeds uses chemicals or rodelization as explained here by Soma

"
I named this new method "Rodelization," after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plants in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male "bananas." A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built-in safety factor so that in case of severe conditions, the plant can make sure the species is furthered.



To me, a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male-banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop, or at the very least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emergency devices out. I call them "emergency devices" because they emerge at times of stress.



In the Rodelization method, the male banana is very valuable. After growing your female plants 10-14 days longer than usual, hang them up to dry, then carefully take them off the drying lines and inspect for bananas. Each and every banana should be removed, and placed in a small bag labeled very accurately. These sealed bags can be placed in the fridge for one or two months and still remain potent.



For the next phase, you need to have a separate crop that’s already 2 1/2 weeks into flowering. Take your sealed bags of pollen out of the fridge, and proceed to impregnate your new crop of females. To do this, you must first match the female plant and the pollen from the same strain in the previous crop. Shut all the fans in the growroom down. Then take a very fine paintbrush, dip it in the bag of pollen, and paint it on the female flower. Do this to each different strain you have growing together. I have done it with up to 10 different kinds in the same room with great success.



I use the lower flowers to make seeds, leaving the top colas seedless for smoking. This method takes time (two crops), but is completely organic, and lets you have great-quality smoke at the same time you make your female seeds. If you’re one of those growers who’s never grown seeds for fear of not having something good to smoke, you will love this method.



You can also use this pollen to make new female crosses by cross-pollinating. The older females with the male bananas can be brought into the room with the younger, unpollinated females after they are three weeks into flowering. Turn all of the circulation fans on high, and the little bits of pollen will proceed to make it around the room. Do this for several days. Six to seven weeks later, you will have ripe 100% feminized seeds; not nearly as many as a male plant would make, but enough to start over somewhere else with the same genetics."
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
sry, wasnt obvious to me. even jorge cervantes once claimed shining red light on seeds from their pack will change some to females. from there the red lighters came stomping through the crowds of yesteryear.

techniques like this rodelization guarantee fem seeds without the cost of growing rooms of herms, red light guesswork only to have to plant all those red light seeds just to see if it worked right seems strange to me.
anyone growing for female seeds uses chemicals or rodelization as explained here by Soma

"
I named this new method "Rodelization," after a friend who helped me realize and make use of this way of creating female seeds. After growing crop after crop of the same plants in the same conditions, I noticed that if I flowered the plants 10-14 days longer than usual, they would develop male "bananas." A male banana is a very slight male flower on a female marijuana plant that is formed because of stress. Usually they do not let out any pollen early enough to make seeds, but they sometimes do. They are a built-in safety factor so that in case of severe conditions, the plant can make sure the species is furthered.



To me, a male banana is quite a beautiful thing. It has the potential of making all female seeds. Many growers out there have male-banana phobia. They see one and have heart palpitations, they want to cut down the entire crop, or at the very least take tweezers and pluck the little yellow emergency devices out. I call them "emergency devices" because they emerge at times of stress.



In the Rodelization method, the male banana is very valuable. After growing your female plants 10-14 days longer than usual, hang them up to dry, then carefully take them off the drying lines and inspect for bananas. Each and every banana should be removed, and placed in a small bag labeled very accurately. These sealed bags can be placed in the fridge for one or two months and still remain potent.



For the next phase, you need to have a separate crop that’s already 2 1/2 weeks into flowering. Take your sealed bags of pollen out of the fridge, and proceed to impregnate your new crop of females. To do this, you must first match the female plant and the pollen from the same strain in the previous crop. Shut all the fans in the growroom down. Then take a very fine paintbrush, dip it in the bag of pollen, and paint it on the female flower. Do this to each different strain you have growing together. I have done it with up to 10 different kinds in the same room with great success.



I use the lower flowers to make seeds, leaving the top colas seedless for smoking. This method takes time (two crops), but is completely organic, and lets you have great-quality smoke at the same time you make your female seeds. If you’re one of those growers who’s never grown seeds for fear of not having something good to smoke, you will love this method.



You can also use this pollen to make new female crosses by cross-pollinating. The older females with the male bananas can be brought into the room with the younger, unpollinated females after they are three weeks into flowering. Turn all of the circulation fans on high, and the little bits of pollen will proceed to make it around the room. Do this for several days. Six to seven weeks later, you will have ripe 100% feminized seeds; not nearly as many as a male plant would make, but enough to start over somewhere else with the same genetics."
I've never heard of exposing seeds to red light or I might have caught the misunderstanding sooner myself.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
jorge cervantes medical marijuana grow bible is where I first saw it then it was perpetuated online like gospel.
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
jorge cervantes medical marijuana grow bible is where I first saw it then it was perpetuated online like gospel.
Sounds about right. There's a line from an old spy show that always stuck with me that really applies to the old schoolers advice, "trust but verify".
 

chris42393

Well-Known Member
Feminized seeds + colidal silver = free feminized seeds forever...
Hello! Im not familiar with Colidal Silver. Do you need to for the plant to a male, from a feminized seed and put that on it? Obviously if its hard to explain (or it just takes way to long) you dont have to, by any means. Just curious lol
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Hello! Im not familiar with Colidal Silver. Do you need to for the plant to a male, from a feminized seed and put that on it? Obviously if its hard to explain (or it just takes way to long) you dont have to, by any means. Just curious lol
There are plenty of threads on here about it but basically you treat the female plant with foliar sprays of colloidal silver and it will produce male flowers and pollinate itself. You can also collect some of the pollan to pollinate another plant.
 

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
I've never thought of just letting the plant go and then collecting the pollen if/when it Hermies. That's interesting.
I'm just curious, because I'm wanting to start breeding (well, more just pollinating really) To get my own seeds. And I wasn't even sure if the sex of a plant was determined in the seed itself, or if there is a genetic 'switch' that tells the growing plant to become a male/female.
There are a few of the original Dutch breeders and some others who have made their findings public about how environmental factors from the point of germination to right around the hardening off of the seedling effect the ratio of male to female.
 

chris42393

Well-Known Member
There are plenty of threads on here about it but basically you treat the female plant with foliar sprays of colloidal silver and it will produce male flowers and pollinate itself. You can also collect some of the pollan to pollinate another plant.
Ahhh okay cool! Thanks for the reply! :)
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
this is said to be decided by the environment that the donor parents were growing in and their health status at the time of fertilization.
BINGO!

I've seen some pretty poor ratio's. Breeder actually started to send dbl pack's to those buying and gave all that did, another. Till his next round of beans....Improved the situation he was dealing with over the first run.
 

GreatwhiteNorth

Global Moderator
Staff member
Lacking solid scientific data your best bet is 50/50 male/female.
Small runs might get you a higher percentage one way or the other but that would be a result of the smaller sample.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
There are a few of the original Dutch breeders and some others who have made their findings public about how environmental factors from the point of germination to right around the hardening off of the seedling effect the ratio of male to female.

but then one must rectify the fact that feminized pollen can and does through pollination, make sex determination even before pollination by scientifically pairing the female combo of x and y chromo's within the pollen, not the room, not the calyx and not while growing. Surely we believe that normal pollen also contains these same either male or female chromo's naturally, and act the same .
I posit if we could inspect the donor pollen before pollination we could foretell the sex of the resulting seed of pollination using that pollen.
If shitty atmosphere is in control perhaps it controls the male donor and its assembly of either male or female pollen before its released into the air.bongsmilie upload_2017-11-27_10-5-6.jpeg
 
i have a pretty decent memory, i don't need to write things like that down unless i want to recall very specific numbers. maybe if you pulled your head out of your ass, you could find a more convenient place to keep your own memory.
Hey brotha it seems like you have very big head. And it's stuck pretty far in your ass. Let's all admit it none of us can put a 100% label on it because no lie every single seed I have ever planted from a friend has been a female. So I can say I've had 100% success with females even though I am trying for a male for my sanitary room so I can pollinate a strain and eventually make a strain for exactly what I need it for then move on. I even killed the lights on four plants for two weeks no water no light now nothing. Not even a hermaphrodite. The only thing you can say is count your blessings from the ganja gods and be thankful that we have such a great natural medicine. I mean growing is not only what i have chosen to do being a caregiver for not just kids trying to get a buzz but for people whom actually need it. Can anyone walk in here and tell me the exact ratio for hitting a jackpot in the slots I mean let's get real here we are all trying to do the same thing and grow some beautiful flowers/ meds here are the two that lives the stress test and they are smelling and looking beautiful one is wifi og and the other was a clone off a flowering plant that I choose to clone at last minute so it monster cropped and everyone told me I was wasting my time but I have two monster cropped plants and they were the only two I tried. If you love your plants the will treat you in return with plentiful harvest. Now anyone have Snapchat hmu on mine mrniceguy420rj happy growing to all and to all a high night.
IMG_20171205_211713.jpg IMG_20171205_211755.jpg IMG_20171205_212009.jpg IMG_20171205_212028.jpg
 

Attachments

Top