Genetics and Leaf size

As a disclaimer, my purpose is not to grow in order to collect the buds. I have a cool craft where I make art by moulding leaves into glass and ceramic art pieces. I want to make really large pieces using very big leaves. The buds are just an extra perk (a very very good extra perk).

I'm looking specifically for big wide Indica leaves, preferably with the largest middle blade being at least 6 inches.

I know most cannabis doesn't produce a leaf this large. However I know they are out there. Does anyone else have any input on strains, conditions (or a solid connection) to leaves of this size?

Here is a link to a picture showing what I'm trying to achieve.

Where is the pic???

Sorry, not sure what happened there... Here it is.

I came across this while reading about ammonium to nitrate ratios in hydro ferts.

"The type of nitrogen used can also influence the tone or finish of the plants.
Ammonium/urea based fertilizers tend to create lush or soft growth resulting in larger leaves
and darker green plants."
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops/factsheets/nitrogen_form.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwj-qIiTrNDRAhXC6iYKHUq2BIAQFghAMAU&usg=AFQjCNGdpNOG9QaRFX8DscOwPyTS4e_4Sw

Sssdh.. Not as big as your pic but bigger than avg for sure.


gh maxigro on this which is 85/15% nitrate/ammonium, higher than avg.
Calnit has about 1% ammonium remaining from manufacture accd to yara.

Also dwc with a big rez helps.

630w cmh.. And kind of too far from the light.. I think the lower light level stimulated wider leaves.

These are 2 different hybrids so I am going to list environmental conditions which I believe are the key to good foliage.

Propogation and Veg Lighting. T-5 HO 6500k
Flower Room Lighting 2 600w Enhanced HPS
1 315 LEC 3100k
Fox Farm Ocean Forest.
Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow
Temperature 74-77 farenheight lights on
Temperature 64-68 farenheight lights off
Relative Humidity 40-55% lights on
Relative Humidity 45-60% lights off

And good watering and transplanting through veg for the best root ball possible.

Largest fan on each plant middle finger measured 8" and 10" respectively.

I agree with the ammoniacal nitrogen in my soil/ hybrid grow also contributing to the lush growth. As @hyposomniac stated above.

I have seen huge fans on many different hybrids.

I've had several strains make big leaves. The key is to not top or do any lst.
Kush strains should basically all do it.
Sour bubble from bog gave leaves bigger than a piece of printer paper.

Sativas to it too easily.

Just don't top or train and let em grow an you'll see em.

On a 4 week old plant leaves are already bigger than my hand, strain is a unnamed cross a friend made.

growingforfun said:

I've had several strains make big leaves. The key is to not top or do any lst.
Kush strains should basically all do it.
Sour bubble from bog gave leaves bigger than a piece of printer paper.

Sativas to it too easily.

Just don't top or train and let em grow an you'll see em.

On a 4 week old plant leaves are already bigger than my hand, strain is a unnamed cross a friend made.

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Both plants above are trained. 1 is a Kush the other is not. Training has nothing to do with it. Genetics of course has something to do with it.

Environment and growing practices are key.

MichiganMedGrower said:

Both plants above are trained. 1 is a Kush the other is not. Training has nothing to do with it. Genetics of course has something to do with it.

Environment and growing practices are key.

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In your experience that may be true...

But in my experience plants plants I've grown can make large leaves easily if left alone. If you Scrog it out or lst it or top it a lot it tends to want to make more, smaller leaves....

We're talking "easily" not saying you can't train a plant and still get big leaves, saying most can if left alone....

And I mentioned genetics

growingforfun said:

In your experience that may be true...

But in my experience plants plants I've grown can make large leaves easily if left alone. If you Scrog it out or lst it or top it a lot it tends to want to make more, smaller leaves....

We're talking "easily" not saying you can't train a plant and still get big leaves, saying most can if left alone....

And I mentioned genetics

Click to expand...

I see what you meant now. Any stress would prevent the vigorous growth.

Cool thread. I think both you guys are right. In my experience the vegetative light spectrum and conditions are conductive to big fat fan leaves and not topping and pruning a plant at all is also a major factor. When I am growing a pack of seeds that I bought online I never prune, top or pinch anything because I want to see how each individual plant behaves naturally and fan leaf size is one of the many factors I take into account. These untrained plants always grow larger major fan leaves (regardless of the strain).

I also always get bigger leaves vegging under 6500K T5 light than I do under HID light; unless the scope of the grow gets so big that using T5 lights is unfeasable.

The biggest fan leaves I have ever seen are from kush strains growing outdoors under full sunlight in Mendocino. You can't beat the sun.

RMNPurps said:

Cool thread. I think both you guys are right. In my experience the vegetative light spectrum and conditions are conductive to big fat fan leaves and not topping and pruning a plant at all is also a major factor. When I am growing a pack of seeds that I bought online I never prune, top or pinch anything because I want to see how each individual plant behaves naturally and fan leaf size is one of the many factors I take into account. These untrained plants always grow larger major fan leaves (regardless of the strain).

I also always get bigger leaves vegging under 6500K T5 light than I do under HID light; unless the scope of the grow gets so big that using T5 lights is unfeasable.

The biggest fan leaves I have ever seen are from kush strains growing outdoors under full sunlight in Mendocino. You can't beat the sun.

Click to expand...

I agree with both us too.

And I always try to grow every seed plant with no training until week 2 flower when I bend when neccesary. Only if too tall in veg is anything done.

I find the largest most potent highest yielding plants had a perfect unencumbered veg cycle.

And the Breeder of my favorite seeds says it matters all the way back to the seedling stage.

I have found it to be true.

Stress free since birth is the way to go. Genetic potential does not mean anything unless it can be realized. As far as the original question of this post goes; the biggest and fattest indica leaves I have seen are on the Pre-98 Bubba Kush and the Skywalker OG Kush. I have seen even larger but thinner leaves on more sativa strains like Blue Dream. It would be cool to use some different leaf shapes in the art.

Notice any correlation on number of blades and positive results? I've started to view more as better. The most I've seen so far is 13 on a 3rd dimension by tga. I see 9 and 11 fairly common but still like them more than a plant that only goes to 5.
I wish I knew more about what it indicated..

growingforfun said:

Notice any correlation on number of blades and positive results? I've started to view more as better. The most I've seen so far is 13 on a 3rd dimension by tga. I see 9 and 11 fairly common but still like them more than a plant that only goes to 5.
I wish I knew more about what it indicated..

Click to expand...

It can mean a little too much nitrogen available. When I lowered my nute strength some of my 11 and more leaf plants went back to making less fingers.

Just something I noticed.

MichiganMedGrower said:

It can mean a little too much nitrogen available. When I lowered my nute strength some of my 11 and more leaf plants went back to making less fingers.

Just something I noticed.

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Good to know.
I've also noticed the correlation of stress and leaf fingers, but it generally goes the other way. In my rooms I tend to fed light, I've totally learned that excess nitrogen sucks, I used to use azos too much and that plants would pull so much nitrogen out of the freaking air they were choking!
It's very strain dependant, and phenotype dependant within the seed batch. But I've always though of the more fingered plants as coming out more frosty, but that could be unrelated.
I wonder what the most fingered leaf has been... wonder if it would get up to 19...

growingforfun said:

Good to know.
I've also noticed the correlation of stress and leaf fingers, but it generally goes the other way. In my rooms I tend to fed light, I've totally learned that excess nitrogen sucks, I used to use azos too much and that plants would pull so much nitrogen out of the freaking air they were choking!
It's very strain dependant, and phenotype dependant within the seed batch. But I've always though of the more fingered plants as coming out more frosty, but that could be unrelated.
I wonder what the most fingered leaf has been... wonder if it would get up to 19...

Click to expand...

I learned to raise and then taper down nutes to stop the crazy overgrowth on the Thai crosses I like to grow. I grow mostly from seed so I mix and water / fertilize individually for each plant and carefully watch for leaf stress. Also no plant is ever watered too soon. I can correct them regardless of strain or issues very quickly this way. Each plant is its own grow basically and I run 8 to 12 different plants in flower at a time in different stages to perpetually harvest.

The closer to perfect each plant grows flowers and ripens the higher the quality is. If I get the nutes to taper down towards the end right and never actually have the roots uncomfortable from salt buildup the product also tastes fantastic and always gives its strains and phenos particular smell in the jar sooner and the potency and complexity is amazing sometimes compared to my lifetime of experience with smoking whatever pot was available or I got from a grower friend over the years.

It is a pain in the ass but shows the most improvement next to transplanting for the best rootball and growing leaning towards the dry cycle. for me. That increases yield and tight bud stacking it seems.

And I had a "15 leafer " as Mrs. Medical Grower called it while we laughed at the over zealous plant all high one night. Looked crazy on a Northern Lights Auto from Greenhouse seeds.

Very similar to how I go about it, Sept I typically go with clones and sometimes seeds. Everything I've currently got is seed raised but that's not common for me. Seed plants are great, really like the way they grow vs clones, but I like the reliability of a good clone.

When ya focus on building that micro organism population of your preferred style, they can really thrive going very dry. The roots expand quickly with dry cycles.

growingforfun said:

Very similar to how I go about it, Sept I typically go with clones and sometimes seeds. Everything I've currently got is seed raised but that's not common for me. Seed plants are great, really like the way they grow vs clones, but I like the reliability of a good clone.

When ya focus on building that micro organism population of your preferred style, they can really thrive going very dry. The roots expand quickly with dry cycles.

Click to expand...

I hear ya. But I have disagree on your last point. It doesn't matter what hand watered potting mix style. The roots search easier through drier soil and branch out better. It is very easy to water and let them have it easier and never fill the pot but only the bottom and outside of it.

As I got better root balls my yield has more than doubled in the same pots water and nutes.

Think we are saying the same thing differently or something