Light ???

C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
I'm not the one pretending to know whether it will yield more and how much exactly, down to a %...

I said it won't line up with those skewed wall plug efficiency percentages you mention as if they are all what matters when comparing light sources, and not what you twist it in, again, whether it yields more or not. I assume it doe,s for the same reason I know it won't line up with those percentages, I'm realistic in addition to skeptical.

If that imaginary 35-49% translates to reality, 2015 will be the last year I grow on HPS...
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Efficiency is not some mystical number that translates into g/w. It's simply power out vs power in. What's being calculated is the radiant power out in watts per a given power in. You're the one taking it a step further and insisting that to mean how good it is at growing weed. I haven't twisted anything. efficiency is efficiency.

If you power something at 1W and it outputs 0.5W, and wastes 0.5W, it's 50% efficient. If you power something at 1W and get 1g, it's 1g effective.
 
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C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
When did i say 35-49%. I straight up claimed 49.1% at the current and temperature I have them operating at, not 35-49%.

193W of electricity converted to 94.8W of radiation and 98.2W of heat. You can feel the radiation!! It will light fires if you put the light source too close to wood, as if you were holding a magnifying glass up to the sun (only there are no optics). You will end up with black spots in less than a minute, not from conduction, but radiant heat!

Another way to find efficiency is to measure the heat output by the heat sink using a calorimeter. If you know how much is wasted and how much went in, you can subtract to find power output. If the efficiency calculations were wrong, the heat sinks would dissipate a lot more heat per watt input. Instead, the more efficient cobs translate to less heat sink requirement per input watt, which you'd expect.
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
When did i say 35-49%. I straight up claimed 49.1% at the current and temperature I have them operating at, not 35-49%.

193W of electricity converted to 94.8W of radiation and 98.2W of heat. You can feel the radiation!! It will light fires if you put the light source too close to wood, as if you were holding a magnifying glass up to the sun (only there are no optics). You will end up with black spots in less than a minute, not from conduction, but radiant heat!

Another way to find efficiency is to measure the heat output by the heat sink using a calorimeter. If you know how much is wasted and how much went in, you can subtract to find power output. If the efficiency calculations were wrong, the heat sinks would dissipate a lot more heat per watt input. Instead, the more efficient cobs translate to less heat sink requirement per input watt, which you'd expect.
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I'm liking everything I hear you say about them.
 
Michael Huntherz

Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
If that imaginary 35-49% translates to reality, 2015 will be the last year I grow on HPS...
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I'm pretty sure by March of 2016 you'll at least be considering a COB lighting system. The tech is moving fast and the results of these CXA and CXB COBs are making the HID SOBs sob. We're already seeing seriously badass results with significantly less electrical consumption and heat than HID, with very long usable lifetimes and very low maintenance/repair costs. The price is going to drop, and continue to do so, and the technology will continue to improve. In another year this won't be something people even try to argue about any more. I'm not picking at you by saying this, I'm agreeing that you will want to move to COBs within the year. Then again, I could be completely wrong. Ceramic lighting might take over by then, hard to say. I know that HID has a sell-by-date, I just can't know what that is, accurately. The assertions I am making are mostly my instinct on the subject.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Michael Huntherz said:
I'm pretty sure by March of 2016 you'll at least be considering a COB lighting system. The tech is moving fast and the results of these CXA and CXB COBs are making the HID SOBs sob. We're already seeing seriously badass results with significantly less electrical consumption and heat than HID, with very long usable lifetimes and very low maintenance/repair costs. The price is going to drop, and continue to do so, and the technology will continue to improve. In another year this won't be something people even try to argue about any more. I'm not picking at you by saying this, I'm agreeing that you will want to move to COBs within the year. Then again, I could be completely wrong. Ceramic lighting might take over by then, hard to say. I know that HID has a sell-by-date, I just can't know what that is, accurately. The assertions I am making are mostly my instinct on the subject.
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Don't toss the CDM and CMH babies out with the HPS bathwater; these are still HID tech, but offer significant improvements in efficiency and a dramatic improvement in usable PAR.

They may not be as efficient as COB LED, but using basic magnetic ballasts and lamps costing less than $100 they'll be cheaper for a long time yet.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Michael Huntherz said:
I'm pretty sure by March of 2016 you'll at least be considering a COB lighting system. The tech is moving fast and the results of these CXA and CXB COBs are making the HID SOBs sob. We're already seeing seriously badass results with significantly less electrical consumption and heat than HID, with very long usable lifetimes and very low maintenance/repair costs. The price is going to drop, and continue to do so, and the technology will continue to improve. In another year this won't be something people even try to argue about any more. I'm not picking at you by saying this, I'm agreeing that you will want to move to COBs within the year. Then again, I could be completely wrong. Ceramic lighting might take over by then, hard to say. I know that HID has a sell-by-date, I just can't know what that is, accurately. The assertions I am making are mostly my instinct on the subject.
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Yeah yeah, LED is the future... white cobs even...

Apparently I (and forums not infested with LED shills, pretengineers and fucking asshats^^) have a different standard as to what "badass results" should entail... it's not something I associate with white cobs or CMH.

And FYI, CMH is a type of HID.

I suggest finding another tree to bark your LED nonsense up...
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Yeah yeah, LED is the future... white cobs even...

Apparently I (and forums not infested with LED shills, pretengineers and fucking asshats^^) have a different standard as to what "badass results" should entail... it's not something I associate with white cobs or CMH.

And FYI, CMH is a type of HID.

I suggest finding another tree to bark your LED nonsense up...
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hey sativied, ive been on ur side about led.. its always improving so what u pay for is an antique in a year, waste in my opinion..

anyways, i recently read a thing in high times about new lighting, and figured to try the ceramic discharge light, the 315 watt cdl agro, is that the cmh mentioned above? i ordered them and ill put up a journal once its all set up to compare against my 2 600 watt hps's. i guess we will see the outcome or ill go back to hps no looking back.. ive been using mh,hps for so long im scepticle of even trying anything else...
just wanted your opinion on the cdl agro if u have any info?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
hey sativied, ive been on ur side about led.. its always improving so what u pay for is an antique in a year, waste in my opinion..

anyways, i recently read a thing in high times about new lighting, and figured to try the ceramic discharge light, the 315 watt cdl agro, is that the cmh mentioned above? i ordered them and ill put up a journal once its all set up to compare against my 2 600 watt hps's. i guess we will see the outcome or ill go back to hps no looking back.. ive been using mh,hps for so long im scepticle of even trying anything else...
just wanted your opinion on the cdl agro if u have any info?
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I think the CMH will treat you much like a metal halide, only fewer watts expended. You'll like it.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
The person who made this thread said in another thread that he pulls significantly less than 1g/w consistantly with his flouro tubes. Please redirect your aggression toward none other than riddleme.

How much did those t5s cost anyway? Does it even cost less than my DIY setups?

Riddleme said it was for trichome production... but when led growers say they get better trichome production [than hps], suddenly it's a lie (I can't say either way).

So t5 producing frost justifies buying overpriced obsolete garbage?
 
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Michael Huntherz

Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
Yeah yeah, LED is the future... white cobs even...

Apparently I (and forums not infested with LED shills, pretengineers and fucking asshats^^) have a different standard as to what "badass results" should entail... it's not something I associate with white cobs or CMH.

And FYI, CMH is a type of HID.

I suggest finding another tree to bark your LED nonsense up...
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I was just agreeing with you, you will want COBs before too long. Sorry for my specificity faux pax regarding CMH. Enjoy your air-conditioning bill.
I have no holy war to fight, I'm buying a 400W HPS next week. I'll be running 100% COBs by next July.
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I think the CMH will treat you much like a metal halide, only fewer watts expended. You'll like it.
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have u used the cdl? i just ordered 2,, 315 watt cdl agro's from boulderlamp.com paid $500.00 per lamp and was told they will cover the same area as my 2 600 watt hps's covered a 4x6 ft table..said each bulb lasts 20,000 hours and the same bulb for veg and flower, less heat than led and the closest spectrum to the sun with better par than any other indoor bulb today..

lamps should be here soon..im scepticle but hopefull.. i can cut my electric bill in half going from 1,500 watts in my flower room(2 600 watt hps and 1 400 watt mh) and 1,200 watts in my veg room(3 400 watt mh) to 945 watts in flower(3,315watt cdls) and 715 watts in my veg room(1 315 watt cdl and 1 400 watt mh)...

if anyone has used the cdl's how did they compare to a hps in flower or a mh in veg? the diagram shows the cdl's red spectrum to have 51% usable light for mj wile only 27% of the red putt off by hps is usable light..

oh and how is the penitration on these lights? should i keep the light the same distance above the plants as my hps or if it isnt as hot should i keep it closer? i was figureing to keep it about 2ft above canopy as tests showed a 315 watt cdl at 2 ft had 686.05 par(umol/m2 total irradiance w/cm =16,501.9 uva/uvb 102.70(uva) and total luminance(lux)=37,388.1..visible spectrum was153.23 compared to the gavita pro hps de 1,150 watt par=798.68 at 2 ft,,,the cdl has the gavita beat watt per watt in all catagories.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
have u used the cdl? i just ordered 2,, 315 watt cdl agro's from boulderlamp.com paid $500.00 per lamp and was told they will cover the same area as my 2 600 watt hps's covered a 4x6 ft table..said each bulb lasts 20,000 hours and the same bulb for veg and flower, less heat than led and the closest spectrum to the sun with better par than any other indoor bulb today..

lamps should be here soon..im scepticle but hopefull.. i can cut my electric bill in half going from 1,500 watts in my flower room(2 600 watt hps and 1 400 watt mh) and 1,200 watts in my veg room(3 400 watt mh) to 945 watts in flower(3,315watt cdls) and 715 watts in my veg room(1 315 watt cdl and 1 400 watt mh)...

if anyone has used the cdl's how did they compare to a hps in flower or a mh in veg? the diagram shows the cdl's red spectrum to have 51% usable light for mj wile only 27% of the red putt off by hps is usable light..

oh and how is the penitration on these lights? should i keep the light the same distance above the plants as my hps or if it isnt as hot should i keep it closer? i was figureing to keep it about 2ft above canopy as tests showed a 315 watt cdl at 2 ft had 686.05 par(umol/m2 total irradiance w/cm =16,501.9 uva/uvb 102.70(uva) and total luminance(lux)=37,388.1..visible spectrum was153.23 compared to the gavita pro hps de 1,150 watt par=798.68 at 2 ft,,,the cdl has the gavita beat watt per watt in all catagories.
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CDL= commercial drivers license or ceramic discharge lighting? I'm not a trucker, but I do use 860W CDM lamps in my grow. They're a larger version of the same tech in the 315W LEC. I'm very happy with their performance thus far.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
CDL= commercial drivers license or ceramic discharge lighting? I'm not a trucker, but I do use 860W CDM lamps in my grow. They're a larger version of the same tech in the 315W LEC. I'm very happy with their performance thus far.
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Hey ttystikk......whats the foot print of that 860? I'm curious about if the spectral increase works for better effective penetration.
Are you seeing a difference on that too? Is the heat output about the same as ? 1K, 600?

I'm looking at these and wonder.....Where did you get the 860s from?

Doc
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Hey ttystikk......whats the foot print of that 860? I'm curious about if the spectral increase works for better effective penetration.
Are you seeing a difference on that too? Is the heat output about the same as ? 1K, 600?

I'm looking at these and wonder.....Where did you get the 860s from?

Doc
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hey doc, id like to hear about ty's 860 also..i dont have the 315 watt up yet but plugged it in to test for a few hours.. i can say the heat off the bulb is way less than hps or mh, i can easily put it 8-10 inches above plant without burning, the open hood can probably be put as close to plants as a cfl,,but to get better coverage im going to keep it 1-2 ft above to get a 3x4 coverage area.. the ballast located above the hood is also alot cooler than a 1k hps ballast.. id say its warm to the touch but not hot and i really like the color of the light, not orange like an hps, and more white than an mh, itll be nice for taking pix..

id also like to know more about the 860 ty has,coverage,penetration, etc...
 
a senile fungus

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
We need a place to consolidate all the CMH talk...

I've been jumping back and forth over a few threads regarding this tech.

I know @borbor has one. And @GroErr and @ttystikk and others that I can't think of...

I used my 2x CMH in flower and they did great. I've since been using them in my veg area, still doing great. Barely any heat produced, I'm cooling two of them with a 8inch booster fan, that should tell you how hot they run, lol.

I'm contemplating putting 2x 315w CMH in a 4x4 and doing SOG
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Hey ttystikk......whats the foot print of that 860? I'm curious about if the spectral increase works for better effective penetration.
Are you seeing a difference on that too? Is the heat output about the same as ? 1K, 600?

I'm looking at these and wonder.....Where did you get the 860s from?

Doc
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I limit my canopy depth to a foot or less, because I want top quality bud and as little else as possible.

The spectrum improvement helps the plants in many ways, some obvious, some more subtle.

My 860W emits about as much radiant heat as a 600W HPS. It takes a solid half hour to cool enough to restrike, however, probably owing to the multiple layers of materials in the lamp.

I'm running between 25-30W/ft² and I'm pleased with their performance when compared to similar wattage of HPS.

They are open rated, meaning no fixture is required. So run them bare! They must be operated vertically, base up or down. So run 'em vertically! They must be operated on a thousand watt magnetic ballast that runs metal halide. Soooo... pony up the sixty bucks, lol

I got them and some magnetic ballasts at www.growershouse.com

TheChemist77 said:
hey doc, id like to hear about ty's 860 also..i dont have the 315 watt up yet but plugged it in to test for a few hours.. i can say the heat off the bulb is way less than hps or mh, i can easily put it 8-10 inches above plant without burning, the open hood can probably be put as close to plants as a cfl,,but to get better coverage im going to keep it 1-2 ft above to get a 3x4 coverage area.. the ballast located above the hood is also alot cooler than a 1k hps ballast.. id say its warm to the touch but not hot and i really like the color of the light, not orange like an hps, and more white than an mh, itll be nice for taking pix..

id also like to know more about the 860 ty has,coverage,penetration, etc...
Click to expand...
CRI of the 860W CDM bulb is 93. It's natural light.

I just got some 315W LEC lights. The main difference for the grower is the smaller lamps run on a low frequency square wave electronic ballast, which substantially improves the actual umol/W output of the lamp. This is how the smaller ones gain their efficiency advantage over mine.

Mine aren't bad, though;
20150705_164856.jpg

14383666614351058023840.jpg
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I limit my canopy depth to a foot or less, because I want top quality bud and as little else as possible.

The spectrum improvement helps the plants in many ways, some obvious, some more subtle.

My 860W emits about as much radiant heat as a 600W HPS. It takes a solid half hour to cool enough to restrike, however, probably owing to the multiple layers of materials in the lamp.

I'm running between 25-30W/ft² and I'm pleased with their performance when compared to similar wattage of HPS.

They are open rated, meaning no fixture is required. So run them bare! They must be operated vertically, base up or down. So run 'em vertically! They must be operated on a thousand watt magnetic ballast that runs metal halide. Soooo... pony up the sixty bucks, lol

I got them and some magnetic ballasts at www.growershouse.com



CRI of the 860W CDM bulb is 93. It's natural light.

I just got some 315W LEC lights. The main difference for the grower is the smaller lamps run on a low frequency square wave electronic ballast, which substantially improves the actual umol/W output of the lamp. This is how the smaller ones gain their efficiency advantage over mine.

Mine aren't bad, though;
View attachment 3470867

View attachment 3470869
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wow,, those are some tall plants!! i try to keep my plants at 3-4ft tall max so that even the lower buds get good light.. lookin good!!!
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
over a 5x6 area, i have 2 315 watt cmh over a 4x6 table then 5 5gal buckets on the side, should i use 3 cmh or 2 cmh and add 1 400 watt hps for adding some red to the spectrum?
 
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