Harvest a Pound Every Three Weeks!

letdown shifty

letdown shifty

Well-Known Member
So I'm having trouble deciding which way to go for lighting. Was originally thinking (2) 4' 8 bulb T5's with a mix of HO and led bulbs. But looking over some research with the smd 5050 led strip lighting, I've considered going that route cause it's so much cheaper to just have a DIY project. I've found problem with those strips is penetration of canopy, but what if I surrounded the girls with light?
Does anyone have any knowledge in this topic or first hand experience? Really just want to have a grow setup that runs optimally, and as cheap as possible. Also, get it all as close to right as possible the first time. To save on upgrading or changing much later.
Thanks, Shifty
(After typing sorry if this is in wrong forum. Just know this one contains some knowledgeable people)
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
letdown shifty said:
So I'm having trouble deciding which way to go for lighting. Was originally thinking (2) 4' 8 bulb T5's with a mix of HO and led bulbs. But looking over some research with the smd 5050 led strip lighting, I've considered going that route cause it's so much cheaper to just have a DIY project. I've found problem with those strips is penetration of canopy, but what if I surrounded the girls with light?
Does anyone have any knowledge in this topic or first hand experience? Really just want to have a grow setup that runs optimally, and as cheap as possible. Also, get it all as close to right as possible the first time. To save on upgrading or changing much later.
Thanks, Shifty
(After typing sorry if this is in wrong forum. Just know this one contains some knowledgeable people)
Click to expand...
Are you on a budget Shift? If so, I'd stay away from LEDs. It's not that there's anything wrong with them for veg but you'd be better off spending your money elsewhere. It's really close now but from what I hear HPS is still #1.

When I'm helping someone set up a grow the first thing we do is come up with a budget. Figure each flower system costs about $150 to build. You have to have at least one flower system and if you want to run a perpetual harvest, you need three systems. All you really need for veg is a couple of shop lights. If you have money to burn then a T5s are great.

For flowering you have to run HPS lights. If you have more than one light then mix in an MH lamp. The bigger the better. Light is everything! I can't emphasize this enough, how much you harvest is directly dependent upon how much light you have. Let me explain...you can have the best aeroponic system in the world but if all you run is some small fluorescent lights, you'll never see your maximum harvest. In fact you may be harvesting a fraction of the potential.

Here's the thing though, it's not about fluorescent, HPS, LED or MH, It really comes down to total lumens hitting the leaves. Now of course the light needs to be in the correct color spectrum but that's a given. You need a lot of light and it needs to be close to the plant. Every foot of distance costs you massive amounts of lumens. The only issue you have to watch is heat. How do you tell if your light is too close? Hold you hand over the canopy for a minute. If it starts to feel warm then your lights are too close.

So if it's total lumens combined with distance then in theory you could run 3- 400 watt fluorescent lights on one of my system and it should do better than a single 1000 watt HPS. You could put one light on on top and one on each side, close to the plants. The light would be way more efficient.
 
letdown shifty

letdown shifty

Well-Known Member
StinkBud said:
Are you on a budget Shift? If so, I'd stay away from LEDs. It's not that there's anything wrong with them for veg but you'd be better off spending your money elsewhere. It's really close now but from what I hear HPS is still #1.

When I'm helping someone set up a grow the first thing we do is come up with a budget. Figure each flower system costs about $150 to build. You have to have at least one flower system and if you want to run a perpetual harvest, you need three systems. All you really need for veg is a couple of shop lights. If you have money to burn then a T5s are great.

For flowering you have to run HPS lights. If you have more than one light then mix in an MH lamp. The bigger the better. Light is everything! I can't emphasize this enough, how much you harvest is directly dependent upon how much light you have. Let me explain...you can have the best aeroponic system in the world but if all you run is some small fluorescent lights, you'll never see your maximum harvest. In fact you may be harvesting a fraction of the potential.

Here's the thing though, it's not about fluorescent, HPS, LED or MH, It really comes down to total lumens hitting the leaves. Now of course the light needs to be in the correct color spectrum but that's a given. You need a lot of light and it needs to be close to the plant. Every foot of distance costs you massive amounts of lumens. The only issue you have to watch is heat. How do you tell if your light is too close? Hold you hand over the canopy for a minute. If it starts to feel warm then your lights are too close.

So if it's total lumens combined with distance then in theory you could run 3- 400 watt fluorescent lights on one of my system and it should do better than a single 1000 watt HPS. You could put one light on on top and one on each side, close to the plants. The light would be way more efficient.
Click to expand...
Stinkbud, thanks for the reply and all the info. I think I followed along with most of it even though it is all new to me.
I am on a bit of a budget, that being the main reason I was looking at all available lighting options. But I do understand that it is one of the most important parts of the grow, if not the most important. Just so intrigued with those 5 meter led light strips, at roughly $20 per roll. They seem low cost. Also, advertised to put off 40-45lm per led. So @ 60 led per meter, that's 2400 lumen per meter in just one strand. What is an acceptable lumen output per foot? I guess that's where I'm lost.
I also understand that I've got to get the right light spectrum. Read up on that pretty extensively. Also, yes, I would like to make it a continuous grow. That being said, my plant limit is 12 so I figured probably start with 4 & keep adding 4 when I move the girls to the next tent. Should never exceed my limit that way, also at any point I get more patients I can just expand as needed.
Overall, I just really want to do this the right way. That being said, lots of ways to get to the same end, I just wanna try to do it the smart way & as cost effective as possible (short term as well as long)

Thanks, Shifty
 
WeedFreak78

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
I'm extremely impressed with my 2'x4', 6 bulb T5 setup in Veg. I was running all high blue spectrum bulbs( these>http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-AgroMax-4ft-T5-Pure-Par-Bulbs#) and i was actually having trouble getting vertical growth out of my mom's, the plant was stacking node on node. I ended up replacing 2 bulbs with 10K bulb and now it's stretching a little, enough to make taking clones easier. It also covers the cloner unit perfectly.
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
letdown shifty said:
So @ 60 led per meter, that's 2400 lumen per meter in just one strand. What is an acceptable lumen output per foot? I guess that's where I'm lost.
Thanks, Shifty
Click to expand...
First swap "acceptable" to "maximum". Like I've said before many times. When it comes to lights think dick size. If you could choose the size of your dick would you choose acceptable? My dick is acceptable...that just doesn't sound right. If you could choose why not go big. In the snowboard, dirtbike, kitesurf, windsurf, surf, skate, wakeboard world we have a saying, go big or go home...

A 1000W HPS puts out 145,000 lumens. So you would need 60.4 strands to just equal one HPS light. I just bought two HPS lamps, ballasts and reflectors for $200 on Craig's List. I see deals like this all the time. People think growing pot is easy so they go out and buy all the equipment only to find out it's a lot harder than they thought so they unload everything cheap.

I've been pricing LEDs for years now and also watching the results of other growers and I'm just not seeing the results to justify the cost. If you want the best quality meds then you really need to run HPS or MH lights. Someday this will all change but for right now, that's the best choice.

Check this out...You could give me a $150 and I could go out and buy a light and a couple of bags of soil and grow a pound of killer buds. Hell the whole time I was in High School I grew my pot for free! I'd just go find a place in the woods by a stream and plant a handful of seeds. That was back in the day when pot had seeds so I literately had a million seeds! I'd plant them by the handful and if they lived, great!
 
letdown shifty

letdown shifty

Well-Known Member
StinkBud said:
A 1000W HPS puts out 145,000 lumens. So you would need 60.4 strands to just equal one HPS light. I just bought two HPS lamps, ballasts and reflectors for $200 on Craig's List.
Click to expand...
Yeah, wrong choice of adjective. I'll blame it on painkillers. The calculations are a bit off, my 2400 lumen was for 1 meter. The full 5 meter strips numbers would look more like this. 12,000-13,500 lumen depending on fluctuations. 1000W HPS = 145,000 lumens, 145,000/12,000= 12 strips. Where I'm curious though is in the electricity usage, the led strip operates at 12v 3amp which equates to 36 watt. So, 36 × 12 strips = 432 watts as opposed to the 1000 watt HPS.
Like I said, I'm just weighing all options and doing the research. I'd be interested to check out someone's setup. Wish everything surrounding a plant with great medicinal value didn't have to be so hidden & secretive.
-Shifty
 
WeedFreak78

WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
StinkBud said:
A 1000W HPS puts out 145,000 lumens. So you would need 60.4 strands to just equal one HPS light. I just bought two HPS lamps, ballasts and reflectors for $200 on Craig's List. I see deals like this all the time. People think growing pot is easy so they go out and buy all the equipment only to find out it's a lot harder than they thought so they unload everything cheap.
Click to expand...
LOL..it IS easy to grow pot. People just make it way more difficult than it needs to be..I've grown plenty of decent herb in nothing but dirt from my yard and water from the hose and nothing else. Now if you want to try dialing in every little aspect of your grow..it's going to get complicated. K.I.S.S, until you get a few grows under your belt.

I love CL.:hump:.I just missed a 5x5 tent, 1000w digital hps with hood, 6" fan w/carbon filter, and a 4 spot, 5 gal rdwc for $500.. i wanted it just for a drying tent..i could have sold the 1000W and 6" fan combo and got most of my $$$ back..I woulda kept the RDWC system..:blsmoke:
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
Everyone loves photos! I thought I'd give you guys a little taste of what's going on over yonder. I wish you could smell them! They are all amazing and two of them are like nothing I've ever seen before. These are new stains from seed. They are that same Kandy Kush X Blue Cheese cross with some of them being pure Kandy Kush back cross. I've saved clones of all of them just in case.

Check out the new multi-system design. This is a sort of flip-flop arrangement. The only bad point is I have to keep the nutes the same through the whole grow. They really don't change much in flower anyway. This is the grow I'm using the new Botanicare Kind nutrients on. Overall they look pretty healthy. I did notice a little tip burn on one of the strains. She might just be a little bitch though.

The only thing I'm concerned about is the flush. I'm hoping if I keep the nutes low enough I won't have to flush. If the plants change colors the last week then I know I'm good. If they stay a dark green like they are now, I'm going go have to separate and flush. Enjoy the photos...
 
P

ptr123

Active Member
StinkBud said:
I have my light about 4ft. away from my clones just because it's also one of my veg lights. They really don't need much light to pop roots. I run the pump on my cloner 24/7 to keep the water on the warm side.

Average time to root is 10-14 days. The fastest I've seen was some Purple Wreck at 4 days. Most Chem Dog genetics like NYC Diesel, OG Kush, Tahoe Kush, etc... take forever to root. Most strains are easy to clone.
Click to expand...
Thanks for replying StinkBud. I tried your cloner and have some clones in it now. I have it in there for a month now and there are barely any roots coming out. Should I keep waiting or should I start over? What do you recommend?
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
ptr123 said:
Thanks for replying StinkBud. I tried your cloner and have some clones in it now. I have it in there for a month now and there are barely any roots coming out. Should I keep waiting or should I start over? What do you recommend?
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If you have little white dots or little roots starting then you are good. Some strains take a long time to pop roots but yours seems a little excessive. I don't put anything in the water. The water up here runs under 200 PPM and that is mostly calcium. Down in California my water was 900 PPM! Who knows what the fuck was in it. Straight tap water almost killed all my plants! I had to use an RO machine just to get clean water. Something to think about.

Watch out for root rot. If your roots look grey and transparent instead of opaque and white then you have root rot. If that's the case you want to ditch everything and start over. Make sure you bleach everything really well before you bring in a clean batch. Once you get the process wired you will have clones coming out your ass.
 
joespit

joespit

Well-Known Member
Hey stink I just built a version of the Oregon special, in all your years of areoponic mastery have you any better solution to route the water run off back into the rez other than putting crude holes in the top of the Rez? I ask because I'm going to be adding a light mover and I'm worried that the "no shadows" element of the light mover is going to over light my rez
 
yktind

yktind

Well-Known Member
Hey Stink,

I am getting ready to pop a bunch of seeds since I hate going to the coops to buy mite infested clones. My plan is to start them in root riot cubes but my question is do I just pop them right into the cloner or should I let them get the first set of true leaves first?

If I pop them into the cloner my worry is the mess that will happen because of all the spraying water?

Ooooorrrrrr. Do I pop the seed as normal and then stuff it into the collar? root tip down? Would that work? Sounds like a great lazy plan.
 
letdown shifty

letdown shifty

Well-Known Member
yktind said:
Hey Stink,

I am getting ready to pop a bunch of seeds since I hate going to the coops to buy mite infested clones. My plan is to start them in root riot cubes but my question is do I just pop them right into the cloner or should I let them get the first set of true leaves first?

If I pop them into the cloner my worry is the mess that will happen because of all the spraying water?

Ooooorrrrrr. Do I pop the seed as normal and then stuff it into the collar? root tip down? Would that work? Sounds like a great lazy plan.
Click to expand...
All good questions. Pulling up my chair to wait for the answers.
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
MouseE said:
Hey Stinkbud

So I got your first version of the aerocloner built, in your new version with the ball valve and hose adapter I was wondering whats that for. Is it so you can hook up a garden hose and drain it easier? I got the extra add ons but I lost it so I'm not gonna be able to upgrade my system til I can make it back to Ace Hardware (who knows when that will be).

But I already got some clippings from my medical shop and I got some Tangerie, Super Shark, and Big Buddha Blue Cheese that I germinated from seed that are almost ready to have some clippings cut and move to the cloner. I just got back from California where I lost my cellphone but I will post pictures later.

Anyways I also just bought a cycle timer so as soon as i drill some holes and put in some netpots im gonna hook everything up and see how it goes. Right now I'm just using a rubbermaid container as I bought it before I realized you had an Aerocloner 2 plan so stronboxes will have to come later as I'm running on a tight budget right now.
Click to expand...
Yea, the valve and hose adapter makes draining the res effortless. On my latest rail system I also put valves on each spray bar so I can turn the water off to the sprayers. So now I can drain the full 25 gallons in just a few minutes. Now a complete res change takes less than 15 minutes.

If the Blue Cheese comes out good you're going to be stoked! I've bought Blue Cheese seeds twice and the first one ended up with really wide fat leaves like an old school Indica. I stated another Blue Cheese seed and it looks totally different. I'd almost swear someone switched seed or something. This is the plant I have over in my tent right now and it looks almost pure Sativa! It's not a big Mexican or South American though. It looks exactly like a Thai Sativa with short growth and smaller leaves. The leaves are thin like a Sativa though. My Blueberry Muffin and StinkBud IV plants are pretty much done and this Blue Cheese looks like it has another month at least before it finishes. So hopefully you Blue Cheese has the wide fat leaves...
 
ummm Steve

ummm Steve

Member
joespit said:
Hey stink I just built a version of the Oregon special, in all your years of areoponic mastery have you any better solution to route the water run off back into the rez other than putting crude holes in the top of the Rez? I ask because I'm going to be adding a light mover and I'm worried that the "no shadows" element of the light mover is going to over light my rez
Click to expand...
It's my intention to use a PVC drain spout adapter like:
https://www.gutterworks.com/shop-online/downspout-products-2/downspout-tile-adapters-3/pvc-downspout-tile-adapters-9/commerical-size-pvc-downspout-adapters-78/4x4x4-pvc-downspout-tile-adapter

It may need to be an offset adaptor. I don't know yet.
Attach adaptor to fence post, then attach a 90deg elbow, then run a short length of pipe to a hole cut in the res.

If you find a better solution, please share.
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
ummm Steve said:
It's my intention to use a PVC drain spout adapter like:
https://www.gutterworks.com/shop-online/downspout-products-2/downspout-tile-adapters-3/pvc-downspout-tile-adapters-9/commerical-size-pvc-downspout-adapters-78/4x4x4-pvc-downspout-tile-adapter

It may need to be an offset adaptor. I don't know yet.
Attach adaptor to fence post, then attach a 90deg elbow, then run a short length of pipe to a hole cut in the res.

If you find a better solution, please share.
Click to expand...
My first system used downspouts going into a single pipe. then the single pipe had an elbow going down into the res. It worked great. When I looked at the design I tried to simplify everything as much as possible. If I could remove a part, I did. Most of the stuff I've ended up with has more to do with maintenance than performance. Be sure and post pics of your final designs. I love seeing all the creative things people come up with.
 
letdown shifty

letdown shifty

Well-Known Member
Here are some progress pictures thus far. Systems are all built, cleaning area out and setting up tents right now. These pictures are the modifications I made to Stinkbuds system. On all reservoirs I added a hose to allow me to see water level without taking tops off. Also, on veg setup I put a plexiglass bottom on the tote with a 3" drain tying the bottom of tote to the top of the other tote. (my silicone job is not that pretty, but it holds water)
-Shifty
 

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StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
letdown shifty said:
Here are some progress pictures thus far. Systems are all built, cleaning area out and setting up tents right now. These pictures are the modifications I made to Stinkbuds system. On all reservoirs I added a hose to allow me to see water level without taking tops off. Also, on veg setup I put a plexiglass bottom on the tote with a 3" drain tying the bottom of tote to the top of the other tote. (my silicone job is not that pretty, but it holds water)
-Shifty
Click to expand...
Nice Shifty! I love the brass valve!
 
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