First True Living Organics Grow

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Hey thanks - I just gave them water & the purpling is fading. It's like you have to wait until what you did catches up with the plants in an organic grow. As long as you supply what they need in the container they will find it eventually. I used greensand, feather meal and blood meal as a dry top dressing mostly because I used only FFOF soil to start these off. Next time I will build my pot up in layers to avoid the need to top dress. I have been giving a tea with molasses, cal-mag, kelp meal, hi-P seabird guano, and fish fert every 7-10 days & that seems to keep them happy. Thanks again for the advice
honestly i'm not a fan of layering soil, it's not needed... when you transplant cannabis within days the roots shoot to the bottom of whatever you are growing in anyways, so I don't think it's needed, also in nature it's the topsoil that is nutrient rich, not the bottom, so in my mind that's why I just mix all the nutrients up when I age the soil to begin with.
Layering is not going to hurt anything, it's just not needed.
I wouldn't use cal/mag in conjunction with molasses... molasses is organic's version of cal/mag.
But combining them can lock out your soil.. Be careful with those.
Also I am a notorious light feeder, so for my style of growing I wouldn't feed them that often, but that's me, and my recipe is much different than yours, so it's not comparable, i'd just be really careful feeding weekly with that much food, course it also depends on heavy of a tea that is.
But from the looks of it, I wouldn't change anything, your plants look good.
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Guess you are right about that & was thinking the same while reading Tevs book. When I say layering I guess I mean that I plan to recycle the soil currently in the pots for next run & put some added nitrogen/minerals at the bottom when I build my pots next time. The idea of layers I got from Revs book that apparently a lotta growers hated. I didn't plan on learning about TLO when I started this grow- had it my head I was just going to use ocean forest and bottled nutes forever because I didn't know a better way. I realize also that what is suggested in Revs book is not for everyone because he recommends using tiny ass pots which is why I think he suggests to add teas weekly. I can tell from the lighter sheen on the plants that the last wave of activity has subsided a bit so I'm gonna give em another shot of AACT & then just clean water for awhile. Thanks for chiming in I appreciate the advics
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Guess you are right about that & was thinking the same while reading Tevs book. When I say layering I guess I mean that I plan to recycle the soil currently in the pots for next run & put some added nitrogen/minerals at the bottom when I build my pots next time. The idea of layers I got from Revs book that apparently a lotta growers hated. I didn't plan on learning about TLO when I started this grow- had it my head I was just going to use ocean forest and bottled nutes forever because I didn't know a better way. I realize also that what is suggested in Revs book is not for everyone because he recommends using tiny ass pots which is why I think he suggests to add teas weekly. I can tell from the lighter sheen on the plants that the last wave of activity has subsided a bit so I'm gonna give em another shot of AACT & then just clean water for awhile. Thanks for chiming in I appreciate the advics
I haven't read his book, or any of his information, and i'm not saying it won't work, just that it's a lot of effort that I can't see being effective, meaning they often recommend a highly soluble nutrient at the bottom of a pot, so when I think about that, it doesn't make sense. If anything you'd want a meal-based nutrient that breaks down super slow like a fish bone meal or whatever, but I am a firm believer that the soil should be thoroughly mixed at the beginning, the roots blast down to the bottom anyways.
BUT... shit man, I have seen some insane results from supersoil and layered soils... but conversely I have seen awesome beautiful herb grown with damn near everything (kinda what I always say really)
I would highly highly recommend big pots though... big time. it's REALLY hard to control smaller pots, especially adding teas all the time..
I go 7 gallon minimum for small indicas, and 12s for anything that has some stretch in it. (a good rule is 2 gallon of soil per foot of growth, but I go more because I don't feed)
But I sorta have some weird techniques I like, for example I am a super light-feeder, I prefer to let them just have room in my amended soil and that typically keeps them super happy, I could probably milk maybe another 10-15% if I fed more, but honestly I prefer the smoke of a plant grown this way, works for me anyways.
And as always, my way, is just that, it's just mine, not the only way, nor the RIGHT way for everyone, just right for me. (don't wanna come across as preachy)
If you want to recycle their is some good information in the no-till section, you can kinda hybrid the two, as most can only go no-till for a yr or two before re-amending anyways, but it's useful information, I used to do bagged soil only because I my back isn't exactly 20yrs old anymore... so mixing wasn't an option for me really, but then I started reading more and more about no-till and thought i'd give it a shot, and it's worked super well for me, not only have I saved a bunch of money over the last couple yrs on soil, but also a LOT of sore-back-hours by not having to fuck with the soil.
Another thing to add, is simply looking/thinking of the soil more long-term has actually increased my overall product, and also had me adopting different (more effective) techniques also.
Course, I have adopted a bunch of other hobbies I didn't have prior, like my compost pile, my wormbin, my leaf-mold project, horsetail plants, comfrey, etc, etc.
Wouldn't change a thing though.
 
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Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Yeah I can see myself following a similar path. Already have a worm farm on order & some wigglers to put in it. I am now employing the same techniques I've learned so far to growing food which I think is the future as many have yet to realize a lot of food is grown in a factory. I always wondered why the tomatoes grown in the backyard taste so much better than the store & now I'm beginning to understand that all you really need is good compost & clean water & you can grow just about anything.
The revs TLO book contains much of the same info as the ebook by zonderkop which is not surprising because maintaining living soil is not revolutionary; it's just that basic gardening tech is not as easily marketable as tiger blood or turf builder II. Layering does the same thing as mixing it all in the soil but the layers are timed so that roots reach what they need when it's needed...this is one reason I believe Rev uses very small pots which I disagree with. A bigger pot makes bigger faster growing plants in my exp. I like to flower in 10g or 7g pots- anything less is for keeping a mother in veg. According to Rev a good bite of myco will seek out needed nutrients - in a layer or spike roots will only take what the plant needs & the rest is kept in the soil when it is recycled. Like you say you need to find what works for you and stick with that- there's many ways to achieve the same end in organic growing. Everything is optional as long as you provide your plants what they need.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Yeah I can see myself following a similar path. Already have a worm farm on order & some wigglers to put in it. I am now employing the same techniques I've learned so far to growing food which I think is the future as many have yet to realize a lot of food is grown in a factory. I always wondered why the tomatoes grown in the backyard taste so much better than the store & now I'm beginning to understand that all you really need is good compost & clean water & you can grow just about anything.
The revs TLO book contains much of the same info as the ebook by zonderkop which is not surprising because maintaining living soil is not revolutionary; it's just that basic gardening tech is not as easily marketable as tiger blood or turf builder II. Layering does the same thing as mixing it all in the soil but the layers are timed so that roots reach what they need when it's needed...this is one reason I believe Rev uses very small pots which I disagree with. A bigger pot makes bigger faster growing plants in my exp. I like to flower in 10g or 7g pots- anything less is for keeping a mother in veg. According to Rev a good bite of myco will seek out needed nutrients - in a layer or spike roots will only take what the plant needs & the rest is kept in the soil when it is recycled. Like you say you need to find what works for you and stick with that- there's many ways to achieve the same end in organic growing. Everything is optional as long as you provide your plants what they need.
i really think ya gotta read some different books..
myco needs to be physically applied directly to the roots to work.
And like I have said, the roots will quickly dive to the bottom of the container, and immediately be in the layered amended soil... so the concept is flawed. Severely.
It'll work because it's soil and amendments, but it's not needed, think about it. Next time you transplant a clone or seedling, look at the bottom of the new container about a week after and you'll see roots sticking out, cannabis is a thirsty weed, and the roots on it reflect that.
Just sayin man.
nice setup, and beautiful plants by the way!
you aren't doing anything wrong, of course, just making extra work for yourself though
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Serious scientists don't believe in God either but that don't mean you shouldn't love sweet baby Jesus. I probably am both over complicating it and making a ton more work for my self than is needed but then again my plants are kicking serious ass right now so guess I must be doing something right. Certainly not interested in a weed-nerd fight about the best organic methods; I'm just trying to learn all I can about organic growing and vermiculture and so far there is nothing I've seen that is revolutionary suggested by Rev or anyone else. Nobody has reinvented the wheel here it's just most hobby pot growers like me just never learned about composting. Well that's all about to change...
 

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greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Serious scientists don't believe in God either but that don't mean you shouldn't love sweet baby Jesus. I probably am both over complicating it and making a ton more work for my self than is needed but then again my plants are kicking serious ass right now so guess I must be doing something right. Certainly not interested in a weed-nerd fight about the best organic methods; I'm just trying to learn all I can about organic growing and vermiculture and so far there is nothing I've seen that is revolutionary suggested by Rev or anyone else. Nobody has reinvented the wheel here it's just most hobby pot growers like me just never learned about composting. Well that's all about to change...
regarding religion.. I shouldn't say anything.
Composting is easy, way easier than growing herb.
And it's not a bad idea to be interested in the best organic methods, you are on an organic forum, i'm just trying to save you time and effort, why would I care if you layer or spike anything, I have nothing to gain from it either way.
 

Vumar

Well-Known Member
I have been giving them worm tea weekly but have yet to try & brew up a tea myself. I plan to give a TLO tea brewed with guano, 1-1-1 liquid fish fertilizer & big bloom next week but I'm waiting until a fitting for my RO unit to come in. I know that my tap water is laden with chloramine that'll kill all the micro beasties so guess I gotta wait til my hose adapter arrives. Apparently the RO unit is threaded for a pipe instead of a garden hose; fix one problem & create another one- ain't that how it always goes lol
This is probably too late but most R/O filters have a waste ratio of 3:1. Not only that but most of the R/O filters I have seen require a higher PSI than what comes out of your tap. So do you need or have you planned for a booster pump? If you don hit 'reply' I likely won't remember where to find the thread~
 

Vumar

Well-Known Member
You said that so much nicer than I did.
What do you suggest then? I tend to keep out most of his "spikes" and certain teas and definitely some bullshit additives in there. So I made my own little recipe.... Question is... Im cooking inside a 20gal brute... inside... I water occassionally (once every 10 days with great white shark (very small amounts)) and mix with a DRYWALL PADDLE BIT... yes... using a power drill. Is this okay? I do hand toss it and spin it but I give it a good whirl every few days. The only thing I notice is that is beats on the perlite pretty bad but the consistancy is still right on. Maybe add more chunky perlite once its done cooking?

https://www.google.com/search?q=power+drill+with+clean+drywall+paddle&biw=1585&bih=945&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Yiw9VcntDcu4sAXJw4GYBA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#imgrc=xVuFI8Qqk2sWOM%3A;MTQUMsYqzCUuCM;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csunitec.com%2Fimages%2Fmixers%2F1107%2Fhex-intro.jpg;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csunitec.com%2Fmixers%2F;150;245
 

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
I don't bother turning while it is cooking although I do try to mix in amendments very well before cooking when going no-till

Alternative to perlite, diatomaceous earth or pumice if you can get it. Napa 8822 DE.jpg
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
This is probably too late but most R/O filters have a waste ratio of 3:1. Not only that but most of the R/O filters I have seen require a higher PSI than what comes out of your tap. So do you need or have you planned for a booster pump? If you don hit 'reply' I likely won't remember where to find the thread~
Yeah finding that out - you do waste a lot more water than you make usable in this RO unit. It is kind of a pain to "make" water when I need it so I have been using dehumidifier water - that is when it gets humid enough to fill up the reservior- the pressure from my backyard hose is sufficient to push it through the RO unit so at least that's not a problem.
I have some clones rooted in an areocloner that are just about ready for transplant to dirt cups. I was going to put them in a basic starter mix of mostly peat - should I add a tsp of mycorrhizae directly to the soil before dropping plants in the cups?
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Yeah finding that out - you do waste a lot more water than you make usable in this RO unit. It is kind of a pain to "make" water when I need it so I have been using dehumidifier water - that is when it gets humid enough to fill up the reservior- the pressure from my backyard hose is sufficient to push it through the RO unit so at least that's not a problem.
I have some clones rooted in an areocloner that are just about ready for transplant to dirt cups. I was going to put them in a basic starter mix of mostly peat - should I add a tsp of mycorrhizae directly to the soil before dropping plants in the cups?
the myco only works if it is directly applied to the roots, what works well for me is to mist the roots with a spray bottle of aloe&water (i use a tablespoon per spray bottle) and that gets the roots "sticky" to where you can simply sprinkle the myco on it and it'll stay where you sprinkle it.
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Oh yes, Aloe, I need to aquire an aloe plant (or grow one.) I keep seeing how a lotta peeps are using Aloe as a natural clone gel. Just ordered some comfrey seed because I'm interested in seeing the benefits of dynamic accumilators as well. Dandelions grow everywhere on my yard too so I figured it's worth a try. Thanks again for the advice; I find the more I learn the more there is to know
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Oh yes, Aloe, I need to aquire an aloe plant (or grow one.) I keep seeing how a lotta peeps are using Aloe as a natural clone gel. Just ordered some comfrey seed because I'm interested in seeing the benefits of dynamic accumilators as well. Dandelions grow everywhere on my yard too so I figured it's worth a try. Thanks again for the advice; I find the more I learn the more there is to know
very true, there are also some good info on both comfrey and leaf-mold on the grasscity forum, it's kinda quiet there though.
good info
 

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
What do you suggest then? I tend to keep out most of his "spikes" and certain teas and definitely some bullshit additives in there. So I made my own little recipe.... Question is... Im cooking inside a 20gal brute... inside... I water occassionally (once every 10 days with great white shark (very small amounts)) and mix with a DRYWALL PADDLE BIT... yes... using a power drill. Is this okay? I do hand toss it and spin it but I give it a good whirl every few days. The only thing I notice is that is beats on the perlite pretty bad but the consistancy is still right on. Maybe add more chunky perlite once its done cooking?

https://www.google.com/search?q=power drill with clean drywall paddle&biw=1585&bih=945&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Yiw9VcntDcu4sAXJw4GYBA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#imgrc=xVuFI8Qqk2sWOM%3A;MTQUMsYqzCUuCM;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csunitec.com%2Fimages%2Fmixers%2F1107%2Fhex-intro.jpg;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.csunitec.com%2Fmixers%2F;150;245
Well I used a jobes organic spike which is mostly just blood meal and also a guano top dressing but neither seems to give the plants a boost like giving them AACT does. I am fairly certain my plants won't need any more N the rest of the grow but they are now showing some mag rust and cal spots on some bottom leaves- it is the 3rd week of flowering. I have been giving very small doses of Earth Juice Ca/Mg with humic acid in my teas for awhile but I'm not sure if it's organic or synthetic or if it has been detrimental to the microlife or not. I guess I will have to give them a higher dose or should I just give molasses & hope for the best?
I plan to recycle my root balls & turn it over with a shovel after harvest...is that too much effort or does the paddle but simply work that much better?
 
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