7ft ceilings, what size lights?

MistaRasta

MistaRasta

Well-Known Member
Hey guys/gals I'm upgrading the flower room and can't decide wether to go with 4 600s or 2 1000s..

I'll be running everything in an 8x8 that's 7 feet tall.

I run 4 big trees each round. My plants usually finish out at about 4-5 feet tall. I figured this would be too tall for the 1000s and started thinking about 4 600s.

Anybody have any advice for me?
 
nomofatum

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Distribution would suck with 2 lights in 8x8. Go with 4 600w HPS + supplemental (UVB and 6500k.)
 
MistaRasta

MistaRasta

Well-Known Member
nomofatum said:
Distribution would suck with 2 lights in 8x8. Go with 4 600w HPS + supplemental (UVB and 6500k.)
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If I was running 2 1000s I would only be utilizing a little over half the grow tent. Leaving room for ac/dehumidifier and walking room.

My par wouldn't be as good as running the 4 600s but I thought the 1000s would be better for my style of growing. (Big trees)

Options, options..
 
B

bluerock

Active Member
MistaRasta said:
If I was running 2 1000s I would only be utilizing a little over half the grow tent. Leaving room for ac/dehumidifier and walking room.

My par wouldn't be as good as running the 4 600s but I thought the 1000s would be better for my style of growing. (Big trees)

Options, options..
Click to expand...
Get 2 Gavita Digistar 1000w ballasts and use hydrofarm DE wing reflectors. With the DE bulbs, you can dial down without loss of efficiency and/or bulb life. Plus, they put out more light than same wattage SE bulbs. Digistar can run on 120/240VAC (but set about a 20w fan on top of them if you use the 120V) and operate at 600, 750, 1000, 1150. That's flexibility. (Don't get the "E" model, it doesn't have an external 750w setting.) Only caution is, RFI can be an issue in city-type areas depending on how long your lamp cord is. The shorter the lamp cord the better.

Edit: Re-reading your original post, change that to 4 Digistar 1000s and run them all at 600 w/DE bulbs. That would be a hell of a setup. I use the Plantmax DE bulb, it is cheap and works beautifully. Also, with 4 of them, I would consider the "E" model and buy the separate lighting controller to control them. Controller only works with "E" model.
 
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jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
4 600's or 750s

How big of trees are you going to grow with 7 ft ceilings.......not all that tall, maybe bushy.

bluerock said:
Get 2 Gavita Digistar 1000w ballasts and use hydrofarm DE wing reflectors. With the DE bulbs, you can dial down without loss of efficiency and/or bulb life. Plus, they put out more light than same wattage SE bulbs. Digistar can run on 120/240VAC (but set about a 20w fan on top of them if you use the 120V) and operate at 600, 750, 1000, 1150. That's flexibility. (Don't get the "E" model, it doesn't have an external 750w setting.) Only caution is, RFI can be an issue in city-type areas depending on how long your lamp cord is. The shorter the lamp cord the better.

Edit: Re-reading your original post, change that to 4 Digistar 1000s and run them all at 600 w/DE bulbs. That would be a hell of a setup. I use the Plantmax DE bulb, it is cheap and works beautifully. Also, with 4 of them, I would consider the "E" model and buy the separate lighting controller to control them. Controller only works with "E" model.
Click to expand...
There is a loss in efficiency dimming.

The Gavita 750de is more efficient at 750 watts than gavita de 1000 dimmed to 750. Same for 600.

- Jiji
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
bluerock said:
Get 2 Gavita Digistar 1000w ballasts and use hydrofarm DE wing reflectors. With the DE bulbs, you can dial down without loss of efficiency and/or bulb life. Plus, they put out more light than same wattage SE bulbs. Digistar can run on 120/240VAC (but set about a 20w fan on top of them if you use the 120V) and operate at 600, 750, 1000, 1150. That's flexibility. (Don't get the "E" model, it doesn't have an external 750w setting.) Only caution is, RFI can be an issue in city-type areas depending on how long your lamp cord is. The shorter the lamp cord the better.

Edit: Re-reading your original post, change that to 4 Digistar 1000s and run them all at 600 w/DE bulbs. That would be a hell of a setup. I use the Plantmax DE bulb, it is cheap and works beautifully. Also, with 4 of them, I would consider the "E" model and buy the separate lighting controller to control them. Controller only works with "E" model.
Click to expand...
Never run DE bulbs under wattage. The bulbs need to be hot to work right. That's why you can't blow air across them.
Gavita hoods suck. These are good as supplemental lighting in green house. Indoors use the Boss hood or AC/DE hood. Digital ballast. They make 600 bulbs too. I vote 4 600 watt DE hoods and ballast and bulbs.
 
B

bluerock

Active Member
jijiandfarmgang said:
There is a loss in efficiency dimming.

The Gavita 750de is more efficient at 750 watts than gavita de 1000 dimmed to 750. Same for 600.

- Jiji
Click to expand...
Cannasutraorganics said:
Never run DE bulbs under wattage. The bulbs need to be hot to work right. That's why you can't blow air across them.
Gavita hoods suck. These are good as supplemental lighting in green house. Indoors use the Boss hood or AC/DE hood. Digital ballast. They make 600 bulbs too. I vote 4 600 watt DE hoods and ballast and bulbs.
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Have either of you actually used a Gavita Digistar 1000w ballast? The DE bulbs operate differently than SE bulbs due to the high frequency excitation provided by the ballast. The loss of efficiency by dimming - if any - is not significant. The bulb runs plenty hot, dimmed or not. If there is a disadvantage to the Gavita 1000w Digistar, it is that it only dims down to 600w. The 6/750DE ballast goes lower...but costs more and cannot be purchased without the reflector/bulb combo.

As to the Gavita reflector - which I did not recommend to use - it may not be optimal for low ceiling heights. The air-cooled reflectors referred to by CSO would still require high ceilings due to the intensity of the light produced (in combination with a concentrated reflector) with 1000w Digistar ballast run at 1000/1150. I specifically recommend the non-cooled hydrofarm wing because it allows maximum heat/light dispersion...while still outperforming any SE setup. Really, the RFI and the 240VAC supply(ballast will run cooler on 240VAC and it was designed with this in mind) issues are the only big negatives to using DE bulbs. Or if you want to do bare vertical bulbs, then that requires SE.
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
bluerock said:
Have either of you actually used a Gavita Digistar 1000w ballast? The DE bulbs operate differently than SE bulbs due to the high frequency excitation provided by the ballast. The loss of efficiency by dimming - if any - is not significant. The bulb runs plenty hot, dimmed or not. If there is a disadvantage to the Gavita 1000w Digistar, it is that it only dims down to 600w. The 6/750DE ballast goes lower...but costs more and cannot be purchased without the reflector/bulb combo.

As to the Gavita reflector - which I did not recommend to use - it may not be optimal for low ceiling heights. The air-cooled reflectors referred to by CSO would still require high ceilings due to the intensity of the light produced (in combination with a concentrated reflector) with 1000w Digistar ballast run at 1000/1150. I specifically recommend the non-cooled hydrofarm wing because it allows maximum heat/light dispersion...while still outperforming any SE setup. Really, the RFI and the 240VAC supply(ballast will run cooler on 240VAC and it was designed with this in mind) issues are the only big negatives to using DE bulbs. Or if you want to do bare vertical bulbs, then that requires SE.
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I've ran them and every de bulb and hood to determin the best. Lumn reading and coverage is best in the boos and acde hoods. They also fit between ceiling beams so you can reces them. And yes the lumns are greatly affected by dimming. Way less then they do on HPS. I'm OCD and test everything. Sorry, your wrong......
Ps. And the bulbs used in gavita put out less lumns then Digilux DE.
 
B

bluerock

Active Member
Cannasutraorganics said:
I've ran them and every de bulb and hood to determin the best. Lumn reading and coverage is best in the boos and acde hoods. They also fit between ceiling beams so you can reces them. And yes the lumns are greatly affected by dimming. Way less then they do on HPS. I'm OCD and test everything. Sorry, your wrong......
Ps. And the bulbs used in gavita put out less lumns then Digilux DE.
Click to expand...
You have run EVERY double ended bulb AND hood? Sorry, I find that doubtful. As for dimming, of course the lumens are affected...you are putting less power to the bulb! Although I have not checked it with a meter (yet), I am convinced that a 1000w Plantmax DE bulb on a Gavita dimmed to 600w is equal to or greater than the intensity of, say, a USHIO on a 600w Phantom ballast. I own both and will test it shortly. Although really, it is kind of pointless. The phantom doesn't generate enough frequency to match the Gavita.

"Way less than they do on HPS." I don't understand this statement. The only bulbs we are talking about is HPS. Other than some questionable MH bulbs from Solistek, HPS is all that is available in DE bulbs.

Of course the concentrated reflectors (Boss, AC/DC, etc.) emit higher intensity at the canopy. I never claimed otherwise. Thing is, it is too much intensity in most situations. The wing eliminates that problem and by its very design allows the user to obtain the maximum possible distance from the canopy of any available DE reflector.

If MistaRasta can get the heat totally under control, the Gavitas offer the possibility of bumping them up to 750w or greater. That's where you really start to make some hay.
 
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moondance

moondance

Well-Known Member
4 600's Bare Bulb Vertical and never look back! Parabolic's are nice too I use one for veg great light spread.
 
MistaRasta

MistaRasta

Well-Known Member
I appreciate all the responses guys and gals. I've seen so so many amazing reviews on the de bulbs and fixtures and will definitely consider them in the future.

Right now I'm going to stick to the digital ballasts as I planned on air cooling all my lights.

I think I'll go with the 4 600s and spread 2 of them over a 4x6 area each.

Can someone tell me exactly which chord gives off the rfi interference?

I'm pretty sure it's the chord going from the hood to the ballast...

If so, would I chop this to make shorter?
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
MistaRasta said:
I appreciate all the responses guys and gals. I've seen so so many amazing reviews on the de bulbs and fixtures and will definitely consider them in the future.

Right now I'm going to stick to the digital ballasts as I planned on air cooling all my lights.

I think I'll go with the 4 600s and spread 2 of them over a 4x6 area each.

Can someone tell me exactly which chord gives off the rfi interference?

I'm pretty sure it's the chord going from the hood to the ballast...

If so, would I chop this to make shorter?
Click to expand...
That cord can be bought in 8 foot length. If your comfortable with your set up and plan on leaving it I would cut the cord as short as I could. And solder the connections.
bluerock said:
You have run EVERY double ended bulb AND hood? Sorry, I find that doubtful. As for dimming, of course the lumens are affected...you are putting less power to the bulb! Although I have not checked it with a meter (yet), I am convinced that a 1000w Plantmax DE bulb on a Gavita dimmed to 600w is equal to or greater than the intensity of, say, a USHIO on a 600w Phantom ballast. I own both and will test it shortly. Although really, it is kind of pointless. The phantom doesn't generate enough frequency to match the Gavita.

"Way less than they do on HPS." I don't understand this statement. The only bulbs we are talking about is HPS. Other than some questionable MH bulbs from Solistek, HPS is all that is available in DE bulbs.

Of course the concentrated reflectors (Boss, AC/DC, etc.) emit higher intensity at the canopy. I never claimed otherwise. Thing is, it is too much intensity in most situations. The wing eliminates that problem and by its very design allows the user to obtain the maximum possible distance from the canopy of any available DE reflector.

If MistaRasta can get the heat totally under control, the Gavitas offer the possibility of bumping them up to 750w or greater. That's where you really start to make some hay.
Click to expand...
A 1000 watt gavita turned down to 600 will make much less lumns then a 600 ballast running a 600 bulb. The DE bulbs require high temps to produce the extra lumns and depth of penatration. So dimming a 1000 DE to 600 is closer to 480.
4 bulb manufacturers and 14 hoods. I did the same with digital when they came out. 23 bulbs and 38 hoods. 7 ballasts.
Just because you won't check stuff before you run your mouth doesn't mean everyone else does. I'm OCD.
 
jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
bluerock said:
Have either of you actually used a Gavita Digistar 1000w ballast? The DE bulbs operate differently than SE bulbs due to the high frequency excitation provided by the ballast. The loss of efficiency by dimming - if any - is not significant. The bulb runs plenty hot, dimmed or not. If there is a disadvantage to the Gavita 1000w Digistar, it is that it only dims down to 600w. The 6/750DE ballast goes lower...but costs more and cannot be purchased without the reflector/bulb combo.
Click to expand...

I've used the proline of Gavitas for a few years. Before they were the "in thing." I've never used the digistar.

I've worked over a few issues and question Gavitas tech support more than a few times.

I like to think I have a pretty good understanding of their lighting concepts.

Cannasutraorganics said:
A 1000 watt gavita turned down to 600 will make much less lumns then a 600 ballast running a 600 bulb. The DE bulbs require high temps to produce the extra lumns and depth of penatration. So dimming a 1000 DE to 600 is closer to 480.
Click to expand...
Thats simply not true.

Generally most talking about using different bulbs or reflectors or using a lux meter to determine the best bulb or reflector doesn't understand horticultural lighting.35264330_n.jpg

Here is a comparison of efficiency from Gavita.

- Jiji
 
jijiandfarmgang

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
MistaRasta said:
I appreciate all the responses guys and gals. I've seen so so many amazing reviews on the de bulbs and fixtures and will definitely consider them in the future.

Right now I'm going to stick to the digital ballasts as I planned on air cooling all my lights.

I think I'll go with the 4 600s and spread 2 of them over a 4x6 area each.

Can someone tell me exactly which chord gives off the rfi interference?

I'm pretty sure it's the chord going from the hood to the ballast...

If so, would I chop this to make shorter?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry too much about RFI. Usually its not an issue on any newer equipment unless there is a break in the cable shielding.

- Jiji
 
B

bluerock

Active Member
MistaRasta said:
I appreciate all the responses guys and gals. I've seen so so many amazing reviews on the de bulbs and fixtures and will definitely consider them in the future.

Right now I'm going to stick to the digital ballasts as I planned on air cooling all my lights.

I think I'll go with the 4 600s and spread 2 of them over a 4x6 area each.

Can someone tell me exactly which chord gives off the rfi interference?

I'm pretty sure it's the chord going from the hood to the ballast...

If so, would I chop this to make shorter?
Click to expand...
RFI became a well-known issue due to the high frequency generated by the Lumatek and Micromole (AKA Gavita Digistar) 1000w ballasts. These ballasts were specifically engineered to produce high frequency output in order to produce more light from SE bulbs than competing ballasts. This is what set the ham radio guys off.

Fast forward to today: all ballasts - possibly excepting chinese junk - are internally shielded to prevent RFI. However, the cord going from the ballast to the lamp acts as a transmitting antenna. In general, this is not a problem on digital ballasts that are not explicitly stated as being "high frequency". The shorter the lamp cord, the better. That is why the Gavita PRO line connects the ballast directly to the reflector.

Cannasutraorganics said:
That cord can be bought in 8 foot length. If your comfortable with your set up and plan on leaving it I would cut the cord as short as I could. And solder the connections.

A 1000 watt gavita turned down to 600 will make much less lumns then a 600 ballast running a 600 bulb. The DE bulbs require high temps to produce the extra lumns and depth of penatration. So dimming a 1000 DE to 600 is closer to 480. ...Just because you won't check stuff before you run your mouth doesn't mean everyone else does. I'm OCD.
Click to expand...
OCD? Sure you are. As to your claim, I will test it tonight or tomorrow and post results here.
 
B

bluerock

Active Member
jijiandfarmgang said:
Cool, you gonna toss the lamp in your Ulbricht Sphere in your garage?

- Jiji
Click to expand...
No, I am going to take some simple intensity readings. Because that is all that is needed.

Edit: Nice chart, BTW. Looks like about a 21% difference between the 600w DE bulb and the 1000w DE bulb dimmed to 600w. Drop the 1000w bulb down about 4" and I'll bet they'd be equal.
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
jijiandfarmgang said:
I've used the proline of Gavitas for a few years. Before they were the "in thing." I've never used the digistar.

I've worked over a few issues and question Gavitas tech support more than a few times.

I like to think I have a pretty good understanding of their lighting concepts.



Thats simply not true.

Generally most talking about using different bulbs or reflectors or using a lux meter to determine the best bulb or reflector doesn't understand horticultural lighting.View attachment 3398924

Here is a comparison of efficiency from Gavita.

- Jiji
Click to expand...
There is so much wrong with that graph.
bluerock said:
RFI became a well-known issue due to the high frequency generated by the Lumatek and Micromole (AKA Gavita Digistar) 1000w ballasts. These ballasts were specifically engineered to produce high frequency output in order to produce more light from SE bulbs than competing ballasts. This is what set the ham radio guys off.

Fast forward to today: all ballasts - possibly excepting chinese junk - are internally shielded to prevent RFI. However, the cord going from the ballast to the lamp acts as a transmitting antenna. In general, this is not a problem on digital ballasts that are not explicitly stated as being "high frequency". The shorter the lamp cord, the better. That is why the Gavita PRO line connects the ballast directly to the reflector.


OCD? Sure you are. As to your claim, I will test it tonight or tomorrow and post results here.
Click to expand...
As you stated gavita attached the ballast to the fixture to increase output. The longer the run of cord the less efficient. They also say maximum length from ballast so that tells you shorter is better if they won't run if to long. Please test it. Also test making your own cables out of 2 sizes up wires.
 
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