Which Male to Use

thenotsoesoteric

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
bf80255 said:
okay and what about the generations he grew himself? that he has photographic evidence of? or his extensive knowledge on cannabis or the fact that with all that "DEA backing" now he has access to more advanced gas chromatography and lab shit regarding cannabis than most any breeder alive?

you shouldnt speak ill of a legend man, hes put in his time and work.
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You can call him a legend but dudes a narc. Should these are just threads but there are better articles the tell the same story.

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/3-daily-news/2890-lifetime-icmag-member-gets-banned.html

http://skunkmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=9484.0;wap2
 
bf80255

bf80255

Well-Known Member
thenotsoesoteric said:
You can call him a legend but dudes a narc. Should these are just threads but there are better articles the tell the same story.

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/3-daily-news/2890-lifetime-icmag-member-gets-banned.html

http://skunkmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=9484.0;wap2
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whatever he did or didnt do in the past is his business, cannabis is legal here and I respect his experience + knowledge on the subject of cannabis breeding. I could care less if he was a narc its not like ill be chillin with him anytime soon, I will however be drawing on his body of experience and applying it to my personal situation and its pretty hard to argue with anyone whos grown as long as he has.

breeder politics dont interest me and the feds dont scare me.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
WattSaver said:
I'm hoping that someone has some insight concerning Male speed. Seems like with every breeding project I do. I'll have a super speedy male, and then sometimes I'll also get a slower maturing male. Just based on the speed of maturing is there an obvious choice? I've generally gone with the speedy gonzales, thinking it may reduce flowering time. But I really have no idea.
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I would forget male 'speed' and instead observe traits you'd like to see crossed to your prized females (ie. aroma, structure, resin production, etc.).
 
bf80255

bf80255

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
I would forget male 'speed' and instead observe traits you'd like to see crossed to your prized females (ie. aroma, structure, resin production, etc.).
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kind of hard in some strains at least in my experience, good males often dont exhibit any of the qualities your after in a female beyond the vegetative ones like branching, vigor, height, flower time (speed) stuff like that.

http://rollitup.org/t/how-frosty-can-a-male-get.866681/#post-11480248
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but some guys have males that put off ttrichomes and all sorts of crazy shit, you should check out that thread.

id imagine with a strain like black widow or space queen you could get some really frosty males that you COULD use to judge traits off of.

if you use ethephon you can reverse males and cut out a lot of time because they show pretty reliably what theyll pass on in girl form.
 
WattSaver

WattSaver

Well-Known Member
Well I used both of the males on what I thought was the most promising female 9lb Hammer. All 3 of the females are different phenos. The promising girl is also very fast she is finished already (day 47) at six weeks trics were starting to change to amber. Who knows maybe the offspring will finish in less than 6 wks, now that would be a game changer.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
WattSaver said:
Well I used both of the males on what I thought was the most promising female 9lb Hammer. All 3 of the females are different phenos. The promising girl is also very fast she is finished already (day 47) at six weeks trics were starting to change to amber. Who knows maybe the offspring will finish in less than 6 wks, now that would be a game changer.
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Odds are the quality would be terrible. Terrible, of course, is relative.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
greenghost420 said:
have you ever reversed a male? can other traits be revealed by doing this?
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If you have the chemicals to reverse plants, I don't know why anyone would waste their time reversing males. You'd basically be looking for traits already apparent in females. That being said, I have yet to reverse anything.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
greenghost420 said:
just curious. i came across the chemical to do so last night and have been thinking about it. why not if i can lol
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Here is why not: instead of reversing males, reverse your favorite female and use that pollen to pollinate another favorite female of yours. Pop 10-20 beans and I promise you'll find awesomeness :).

If you don't want to mess with chemicals, I always feel like it's the best route to use multiple males when making crosses at home. Keep that genetic pool open because in the end you're probably just looking for a killer clone instead of stability in seed form.
 
greenghost420

greenghost420

Well-Known Member
i def want something i can clone over n over. but i wouldnt mind creating seeds that i can predict what might come out. somewhat predict anyways lol im all for open pollinations! i generally find my fav fem or 2 and use all males i find. i should use all females. i will in my future f2s. need as many traits as i can get lol
 
bf80255

bf80255

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
If you have the chemicals to reverse plants, I don't know why anyone would waste their time reversing males. You'd basically be looking for traits already apparent in females. That being said, I have yet to reverse anything.
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because you can knock out 2 or 3 generations of guesswork with males you know nothing about by reversing them and then observing the traits theyll pass on before you have to grow out the progeny and see the long way. Ive read that the males when reversed exhibit the traits that they will pass on like bud structure, trichomes, smell, high and all that jazz, never done it myself tho so I cant say for 100% sure
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
bf80255 said:
because you can knock out 2 or 3 generations of guesswork with males you know nothing about by reversing them and then observing the traits theyll pass on before you have to grow out the progeny and see the long way. Ive read that the males when reversed exhibit the traits that they will pass on like bud structure, trichomes, smell, high and all that jazz, never done it myself tho so I cant say for 100% sure
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Yeah, I understand that part but again, why even work with males at all when the females show you all the info that you need to know?
 
bf80255

bf80255

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
Yeah, I understand that part but again, why even work with males at all when the females show you all the info that you need to know?
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for me personally, I dont like that no one has attempted a breeding project with just fems and taken it far enough for me to see what will happen 3,4,5 generations down the road.

I dont see any issue with it but the only way to find out would be to do it and I dont want to waste that much time, energy and resources on a project that may not even succeed.

and what if youve got traits that are linked to the Y chromosome/ youd lose all of them in 2 or 3 generations

have you seen anyone inbreed fems past the F3?
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
bf80255 said:
for me personally, I dont like that no one has attempted a breeding project with just fems and taken it far enough for me to see what will happen 3,4,5 generations down the road.

I dont see any issue with it but the only way to find out would be to do it and I dont want to waste that much time, energy and resources on a project that may not even succeed.

and what if youve got traits that are linked to the Y chromosome/ youd lose all of them in 2 or 3 generations

have you seen anyone inbreed fems past the F3?
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According to Tom Hill's posts at IC, he selfs plants to the 3rd generation before he'll backcross to a related line. He says you'll still run in to inbreeding depression issues regardless of whether you're using males or just females. He often times says these drug traits we're after are all inherited independently so the sex of the plant is just a singular trait not linked to any other trait.

But he's also breeding for stability and then restoring fitness and vigor whereas on our level we're all just fine chucking this onto that and crossing our fingers for a keeper. Different goals I suppose.
 
bf80255

bf80255

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
According to Tom Hill's posts at IC, he selfs plants to the 3rd generation before he'll backcross to a related line. He says you'll still run in to inbreeding depression issues regardless of whether you're using males or just females. He often times says these drug traits we're after are all inherited independently so the sex of the plant is just a singular trait not linked to any other trait.

But he's also breeding for stability and then restoring fitness and vigor whereas on our level we're all just fine chucking this onto that and crossing our fingers for a keeper. Different goals I suppose.
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yeah i remember reading that, but does he do it with just fems?
who can really say for sure? even breeders as good as Tom Hill have hermis pop up in their lines and hes been maintaining those lines for decades so maybe we dont lose any observable traits but why risk it? males are a lot easier to collect pollen from anyway :)
 
Joedank

Joedank

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
According to Tom Hill's posts at IC, he selfs plants to the 3rd generation before he'll backcross to a related line. He says you'll still run in to inbreeding depression issues regardless of whether you're using males or just females. He often times says these drug traits we're after are all inherited independently so the sex of the plant is just a singular trait not linked to any other trait.

But he's also breeding for stability and then restoring fitness and vigor whereas on our level we're all just fine chucking this onto that and crossing our fingers for a keeper. Different goals I suppose.
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i love tom's take on breeding .... but not everyone is chucking ... ACE seeds and a few others do big male populations like tom..i love multi male breeding for preservation sake . he has also said that he has S1's of most of the clone onlys and is wading thru them . BUT after seeing deepchunk and a few others from him i LOVE his male to fem breeding and hope the world finds more people like him..
i still think WE as a group have no idea what inbreeding depression really is look at tomatoes . The OSU blue tom is a great example . at f4 and still being bred in .at this stage it is called the trade name "indigo rose" is the tomatoes genetic material so muck tougher?? or are we as horiculturalist just unable to keep a clean enough enviroment for a f7 to thrive??
 
bf80255

bf80255

Well-Known Member
Joedank said:
i love tom's take on breeding .... but not everyone is chucking ... ACE seeds and a few others do big male populations like tom..i love multi male breeding for preservation sake . he has also said that he has S1's of most of the clone onlys and is wading thru them . BUT after seeing deepchunk and a few others from him i LOVE his male to fem breeding and hope the world finds more people like him..
i still think WE as a group have no idea what inbreeding depression really is look at tomatoes . The OSU blue tom is a great example . at f4 and still being bred in .at this stage it is called the trade name "indigo rose" is the tomatoes genetic material so muck tougher?? or are we as horiculturalist just unable to keep a clean enough enviroment for a f7 to thrive??
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http://emice.nci.nih.gov/generating-models/mouse-cancer-models-1/generating-inbred-mice


in commercial agriculture they stabilize cultivars waaaay longer than in cannabis we have much to learn from them.

that link up top shows how far you can really take inbreeding, I personally own plants and beans of lines maintained since the 1970's ( past the F20) and have bred an autoflowering strain out to the F6 so far and I can say that I have seen very little to no loss of vigor in my own lines and the Cherry Bomb is just as vigorous as most plants I grow out from hybrids. My theory is that people in the cannabis community are both ill informed on how to properly create a strain and being taken advantage of by lazy ass "breeders" that dont want to take the time to properly stabilize traits within their lines just so long as they can find some good parent plants to produce beans that are consistent enough to make some money off of.
 
Joedank

Joedank

Well-Known Member
bf80255 said:
http://emice.nci.nih.gov/generating-models/mouse-cancer-models-1/generating-inbred-mice


in commercial agriculture they stabilize cultivars waaaay longer than in cannabis we have much to learn from them.

that link up top shows how far you can really take inbreeding, I personally own plants and beans of lines maintained since the 1970's ( past the F20) and have bred an autoflowering strain out to the F6 so far and I can say that I have seen very little to no loss of vigor in my own lines and the Cherry Bomb is just as vigorous as most plants I grow out from hybrids. My theory is that people in the cannabis community are both ill informed on how to properly create a strain and being taken advantage of by lazy ass "breeders" that dont want to take the time to properly stabilize traits within their lines just so long as they can find some good parent plants to produce beans that are consistent enough to make some money off of.
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wow a f20 inbred mouse .... crazy/cool/wow... eyeopening even for me who has been exposed to the breeding world . gonna try for three gens this outdoor season with a light dep and full season and lights i should be able to get to f5 with a few i am in love with..
 
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