Ridiculously slow growth

Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Most plants encounter excess light conditions on a daily basis.

On most days, plants encounter light intensities that exceed their photosynthetic capacity. Exactly what constitutes excess light for a leaf depends on its instantaneous environmental conditions and can very over an exceedingly wide range of irradiance levels. For example, irrigated field grown sunflower is typical of C3 crop plants, exhibiting maximum photosynthetic capacity during mid-mourning with photosynthesis declining throughout the afternoon as stomatal conductance declines in response to declining leaf water potentials. Thus even under conditions which may not generally be considered stressful, stomatal conductance can substantially restrict CO2 entry into leaves, thus rendering even moderate irradiances in the top of a crop canopy in excess of photosynthetic capacity.
Excerpt from a typical Hort 101 text book. Pick one out and see for yourself.....

You CAN make some of the available light not used by the plant effectively by employing high CO2 levels and managing your heat levels also,,,,,,,BUT, alas ,,, again, NOT cost effective in veg! I mean, I can get right on down to lumin availability in relation to CO2 levels with heat control if you like, I have before......

Here is some more important info then 24/0.......In converting light intensity to watts: The sun supplies 122 watts of light to a 1 square foot area.

This is where the 12/1 theory kicks in....

READ Nelson GHG and LEARN something!
 
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Camo Hat said:
I had no intention of starting a war here.
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Your not at fault!

Mostly I can ignore.......after my trip to Holland and seeing the use of some of these theory's in actual commercial applications related to our crop of choice.....I feel I kinda had to make a stand....

24/0 is not effective in returns on any level......There is no debate when you can reduce direct electrical cost by as much as 50% alone! That's not to mention the actual science stated above.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Your not at fault!

Mostly I can ignore.......after my trip to Holland and seeing the use of some of these theory's in actual commercial applications related to our crop of choice.....I feel I kinda had to make a stand....

24/0 is not effective in returns on any level......There is no debate when you can reduce direct electrical cost by as much as 50% alone! That's not to mention the actual science stated above.
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let's debate. i'll start a new thread in advanced cultivation so we don't tie up CAmo hat's thread.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
24/0 is not effective in returns on any level..
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I'm skeptical of absolute statements like that. If someone lived in an area where real estate costs were high, they might not care as much about electrical costs, and more concerned with getting the most yield per sq. ft.

Not saying I'd encourage anyone to do 24/0. Just that I don't think its ineffective for everybody on every level.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
I'm skeptical of absolute statements like that. If someone lived in an area where real estate costs were high, they might not care as much about electrical costs, and more concerned with getting the most yield per sq. ft.

Not saying I'd encourage anyone to do 24/0. Just that I don't think its ineffective for everybody on every level.
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Yer right....That was an awful bold statement......maybe at low watt level CFL runs for those just starting out and building from there....I can see that as a viable alternative to high watt/high output,lower on time lighting. But I would still have an off period for the benefits it brings to the table!
 
rob333

rob333

Well-Known Member
Camo Hat said:
I asked for help in the newbie forum (I'm a newbie) but didn't get a definitive answer. Maybe you guys can help.

Growing under 3x 65W CFL 18/6 with a few hours of sunlight when it's available. The photos show my plants at about three weeks old.

I'm careful with watering and have only very lightly fed them 1/4 strength "Jack's Classic" water soluble plant food (20 20 20.) My grow box has a fan and humidifier. My CFLs are no more than two inches above the plant tops.

Commercial seedling starter soil (Black Gold.)

Strains are Jackberry x Shack, Candy Kush and Cheeseberry Haze.

I don't know what my pH is but plan on finding out ASAP.

This is my first grow. Take pity on this old man and help me out.

Thank you
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whats your temps ??
 
rob333

rob333

Well-Known Member
Camo Hat said:
Soil temperatures range from 73 with lights on to about 65 with lights off.

Thanks
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cool after looking at your pics this what i come up with in pic 1 u have all the plants cool cool in pic 2 u have a downwards point leaves which say little bit of over watering which also looks u are getting a little purple due to it being to cold were do u have the thermo sitting ?? i bet ambient temp is around 22c on 18 off that not ball prob is cold which will give u slow growth what spectrum of cfl is it aswell ??
 
Camo Hat

Camo Hat

Well-Known Member
My CFL's are 6500K. I've been much more careful with watering. I don't think I over water anymore.

I think you're right about it being cold in the grow area. I'll post some new pics soon.

I appreciate your advice, rob333.
 
J

Johnxnyg

Well-Known Member
Hope all is going well camo! Been rooting for since you first posted! Thanks for avoiding all the bs and flame wars and having nice informative postings.
 
GrowPops

GrowPops

Well-Known Member
cc2012 said:
Sorry its a Copy and Paste, been looking for the other Info I have on Plants and Light Cycles and Rest(dark/night) Periods...

all Creds to > SmokeyMacPot 420Member

To simplify things, lets use an analogy. Try to think of a plant as a building… one constantly under construction. The plant needs raw materials, (fertilizers and water), and energy (light) in order to “build itself”. The raw materials are the “bricks and mortar” of the building. The energy is the workers, vehicles and power tools used to assemble the building.

The Plant is capable of storing some raw materials and some energy for use later, but the amount is limited...think of a warehouse and a battery.

* During the day, (Lights ON) the plant is collecting and storing light energy, and is using and storing raw materials. The plant is stockpiling raw material, and is charging it’s batteries… it is ALSO using raw materials and using the energy it is collecting. It’s building itself, literally putting itself together.

During the day however, the plant is not as efficient at building itself, as it is at night (lights OFF.) It can build itself, but not as quickly.

* While the lights are OFF, the plant is using energy and raw materials to build itself…. the plant is more efficiently using the raw materials that it stored during the day. The plant is better at transporting and assembling the raw materials.

The bad news: since there is no light energy, the plant must rely on energy it stored while the lights were ON (its stored energy). (Essentially, the plant is running on batteries, and using raw material from the warehouse.)

There is no light energy to collect. Since the plant needs energy to absorb more raw materials, it is easier for the plant to use raw materials that it stored during the day than it is to absorb raw materials through its roots.

* Although the plant IS capable of “doing it all” with the lights on, (Collect, store and use energy & raw materials) it does a better job of actually doing the work (using the energy and raw material) while the lights are out. During the dark however, it relies solely on its limited supply of stored energy and stored raw material.

One last thing to remember is the fact that a plant will always strive to maintain a balance between the size of its roots and the size of its canopy (Leaf mass.) The roots must be big enough to supply as much raw materials as the canopy can use, and the canopy must be big enough to provide the energy required to store those raw materials….

atb
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Whether or not it was copied and pasted...The nail was hit on the head right there.
When I was younger there was a commercial that said " Its not nice to fool mother nature"
All living things need downtime to maintain balance. I have had two recent accidents with burned leaves. Both on days when I was not available to play morning chorus ((here again is balance for plants grown indoors)) when the lights came on so I did not react to the overnight growth into the lights for the first 1/2 hour or so of the morning. I Im running 4 foot t-8 34 watt 2900 lumen 6500k tube fluorescents and keep them constantly about 1/2 inch from the leaf.
I make sure they have room just before lights out though. They need to find their own balance to some extent.
Try to smooth out your temps in the mid to upper 70's.
I suggest plain water for awhile. No nutes until they have used whats available now.
And I would let them dry considerably before watering again. The plant makes roots looking for water. and needs roots to support production of vegetation.
You do realize that this is all just my opinions. Ive grow before years ago but its been awhile. Im having local water issue I believe. Some brown spots on lower leaves and tips all of a sudden after the last watering. Wife says it smell moldy coming out of the faucet. Sorry for the hps light but im gonna take more to post later.
29 days old today
IMG_20150329_223830_943.jpg
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
Camo Hat said:
Things are disappointing. I'll post some new photos tomorrow.
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I'm sorry to hear that. I suspect your water is a primary cause. It's unknown what the TDS level is. If it's high (> 500?) that would cause slow growth, nute lockout.

Hang in there. Cannabis is easy to grow as long as 3-4 basic things are right.
 
iheartpurps

iheartpurps

Member
Dr. Who said:
These are rather old findings/opinions that have been bashed on the rocks of reality!! 30 years of misinformation!

Ever hear of Joe Pietri ? (Look him up on facebook. His findings are NOW taught in 1st year Horticulture 101 across the nation.) Dennis Ford? He's a quote from Mr. Ford "I’ve found that for veg growth there are the two camps of 18/6 and 24/0 (18 hours of light and 6 hours of darkness, this is not how 12/1 works though, that will be explained below). The fact is that all plants need a darkness period to process the days energy into food and growth. Therefore your doing yourself absolutely no favors using a 24/0 for anything other than cloning. All you have to do is look outside, there are only 2 places on earth that ever get 24 hour light at any point, and you aren’t going to find ANYTHING growing there. Cloning of course is not of nature, we are tricking nature, so we put the plant into a constant light period to facilitate this. We’ll talk a lot more about cloning someday in another post. 18/6 works on the other hand, but the truth is your wasting light. Its time to wake up! Its time to trick nature again!"

read the whole thing here
http://www.theweedblog.com/how-to-use-the-121-lighting-method-for-efficient-marijuana-cultivation/



Horse shit....tried that years ago! I get better node space with less lights on time!!!

No, that's not exactly what "gas light" method is..The gas light routine LED to the discovery of photoperiodic control in plants..

Now as for shorter flowering light times.......
Joe P is the 12-1 guru and newer photoperiodic testing of his has lead to some interesting finds. He states in the April issue in Skunk mag.
"My group on Facebook Joe Pierti advanced growing techniques followed my experimentation (In relation to shorter flowering lights on times...He was down to 8/16 and getting great results)."

"At this point I furthered my research into photoperiodic control when I came across this paper:"

"Since the dawn of time, farmers have understood the role of light in plant growth: it wasn't until the beginning of the 20th century that we began to understand the importance of darkness. In 1913, the French graduate student Julien Tournois discovered that hops and hemp grown under glass (old term for greenhouse growing) would flower precociously in winter. He also observed that the plants would flower most rapidly when allowed only 6 hours of daylight."

Well, he go's on in the piece to describe why 12-1 works for veg better and says that HIS only grow bible is "Nelsons green house guide"....I must say, it has be a great help to me too......READ IT......chapter 12.....

I get so tired of ALL of you 24/0 suedo science misanthropes!!!!

24/0 is bunk

actual science rules
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I actually tried 12-1 6/18 it kills your yields and is less potent. You have to understand the rate of photosynthesis depends on quantity of light (energy recieved) and quality of light (color spectrum). Too much light can cause a plant to hit a roof on photosynthesis yes, but you need some serious energy to hit that cap, nothing you could ever likely create in an indoor grow unless you had around 288,000 watts of lighting in a small grow room would gas light routine and 6/18 be viable for effeciency.
 
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