so seriously, does pH and organics go together??

rory420420 said:

Haven't ate at McDonalds in 15 years or more..but hurl insults to prove your point.
Its not the fertilizers,its the users who don't use them correctly...
In the doctoral horticulture program at virginia tech,at age ELEVEN,I learned this...
Yes.I'm not bullshitting.
But,continued educational programs on the subject are waning obviously..now we grow with ego,and popular thought...
How quaint.

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Nobody is saying that you can't grow great herb using synthetics (at least I'm not). What is being pointed out is that inoculating your medium with beneficial microbes, and then dumping synthetic ferts on them is kinda counter-intuitive. What's the point? The chemical ferts are already plant available, so what are the microbes doing for you? To me you may as well simplify things even further and ditch the teas.

hydroMD said:

My best cut was from a feminized seed... always scared of genetic drift or hermaphroditing so trybto keep mothers longer.

Even though I dont believe in genetic drift lol

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FWIW I haven't noticed any difference in the strains that I have been cloning from for years.

Not sure if this is true, but I have read some info on putting a plant out in the sun for a short period which supposedly adds some vigor back in to a plant that has degraded over time. Not sure if that's complete BS or not.....

Let's not forget the immune system benefit of a natural soil. Especially with fresh vermicompost. The plant has an increased immune response, plus trillions of guard dogs in the rhizosphere and phyllosphere. A plant with this relationship will be significantly more immune to predation of all sorts.

Rrog said:

Let's not forget the immune system benefit of a natural soil. Especially with fresh vermicompost. The plant has an increased immune response, plus trillions of guard dogs in the rhizosphere and phyllosphere. A plant with this relationship will be significantly more immune to predation of all sorts.

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And also the antidepressive effects of the bacteria in soil!

st0wandgrow said:

FWIW I haven't noticed any difference in the strains that I have been cloning from for years.

Not sure if this is true, but I have read some info on putting a plant out in the sun for a short period which supposedly adds some vigor back in to a plant that has degraded over time. Not sure if that's complete BS or not.....

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I have a theory that there are genes that are UV influenced. Either turned on, off, or similar. This would explain why clones of clones of clones are sometimes said to be different or weakened. It can't be evolution and shifting genetics, but it could be a change in certain gene expression, somehow controlled by some wavelength in sunlight, I guess UV

st0wandgrow said:

Nobody is saying that you can't grow great herb using synthetics (at least I'm not). What is being pointed out is that inoculating your medium with beneficial microbes, and then dumping synthetic ferts on them is kinda counter-intuitive. What's the point? The chemical ferts are already plant available, so what are the microbes doing for you? To me you may as well simplify things even further and ditch the teas.

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Its not killing them like you think..and I used 100% tea..
Im on the way back from trimming 1lb 10oz of proof..you can use bennies with chem ferts. Read up,its good stuff..@whodat@thador ,how's those roots?

The point isn't just delivery of the brroken down elements..much more involved...

Rrog said:

Let's not forget the immune system benefit of a natural soil. Especially with fresh vermicompost. The plant has an increased immune response, plus trillions of guard dogs in the rhizosphere and phyllosphere. A plant with this relationship will be significantly more immune to predation of all sorts.

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Rrog, that could be the biggest difference I've noticed in the plants. NO pests! I used to battle mites, thrips, etc all of the time. Get a handle on one and something else would pop up.

I figure I've been building my own soils for a couple years now, and I haven't had a single pest around aside from the occasional fungus gnat. It's amazing to me.

^^ It's amazing to me, too! ^^

rory420420 said:

Its not killing them like you think..and I used 100% tea..
Im on the way back from trimming 1lb 10oz of proof..you can use bennies with chem ferts. Read up,its good stuff..@whodat@thador ,how's those roots?

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Yeah, that's true that they don't all die off. Shit, there are some species of bacteria that will clean up oil spills.

I just wonder what they do? What's the benefit? The plants needs are being met with the synthetic nutrients. No exudes are being secreted to attract them to rhizosphere. You're most certainly killing off any mycorrhizal fungi with the synthetics (usually high levels of P). I suppose the teas as a foliar would be beneficial, but I just don't see the role they'll play in the soil.

Allowing uptake and constant availability of all nutrients and keeping p.h. stable..running off diseases ect..lots of BENIfits
Live res or dead res.can't all be live and using organic ferts then.
In soil or hydro..its a good thing

Try a side by side..it'll cost you @$30 for a 5gal brew setup..

rory420420 said:

Allowing uptake and constant availability of all nutrients and keeping p.h. stable..running off diseases ect..lots of BENIfits
Live res or dead res.can't all be live and using organic ferts then.
In soil or hydro..its a good thing

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I dunno. It definitely can't hurt anything, I just question wether the juice is worth the squeeze.

rory420420 said:

Try a side by side..it'll cost you @$30 for a 5gal brew setup..

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Brew setup? DWC? Compost tea?

I have the latter covered.

St0W is right as usual. There will always be microbes in the medium. Does not at all mean they are benefiting the plant. "Feeding" these microbes also doesn't mean they are benefiting the plant. Does not at all mean they are helping with any pests or any immune response.

You screw with the relationship and you likely have fired the little dudes that actually help. And you can't get that in a jar

I did dwc last run w ewc tea..20$ for fish pump,2$ air stone,7$ for mycogrow and 2$ fit,your or you're wife's pant hose, molassas..I'm sure you've got a 5gal bucket and worm poo.

Why mycogrow? Are you feeling fungal hyphae will integrate with the plant roots in DWC?

Rrog said:

St0W is right as usual. There will always be microbes in the medium. Does not at all mean they are benefiting the plant. "Feeding" these microbes also doesn't mean they are benefiting the plant. Does not at all mean they are helping with any pests or any immune response.

You screw with the relationship and you likely have fired the little dudes that actually help. And you can't get that in a jar

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I'm not feeding microbes,I'm constantly adding them..they rule the roost..
Knowing all this how?through YOUR trial and error or whatcha herd?...stow will tell if he experiments...

Rrog said:

Why mycogrow? Are you feeling fungal hyphae will integrate with the plant roots in DWC?

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Not just fungi,and that is occurring..its out of logic..more strains of bennies than any other on the market for the price..use what you will tho...all roads lead to the same destination..if you need a snazzy $40 package,cool..

You're constantly adding them. Got it. And they therefore rule the roost.

OK here's the heart of the issue. You don't have a handle on a proper microbe / soil / plant dynamic. To say they rule the roost proves this. You are parroting stoner science my friend