Help me improve my rols notill soil recipe

Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
Okay guys, I'm looking for some critics (ha, never said that before).
I'm halfway through a small experiment between my own super soil mix, bagged soil, and a half half mix of both mixed in a notill planter (the plant before it was in bagged soil, then amended with my mix in a larger container). I've already made up my mind that organic rols notill is the only way I'll be growing from now on. I'm currently in 3 gallon air planters and will be upgrading to 15s when I mix up more soil after I crop my current harvest out.
Now, here's were the critiquing comes in. The batch of super soil I made to try my hand at it isn't too terribly diverse. My mix consisted of:
33% cococoir, 33% rice hulls, and 33% compost and ewc; amended with fulvic acid, azomite, greensand, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, high P bat Guano, dolomite lime, powdered egg shells, inoculated with endo Mycorrhizae at transplant.
I'm going to get rid of the Guano from now on as I think it's more harm than good in terms of the ecosystem and the bat colonies.
The ingredients I'm looking at adding are: insect frass, karanja, neem, biochar, glacial rock dust, oyster shell powder, maybe some basalt or rock phosphate.
I was possibly thinking of diversifying my compost too. As an apartment dweller my ability to produce a lot of vermicompost is severely limited and I'll have to order at least half of it when I up container sizes. So I was thinking maybe using a mix of leaf mold, mushroom compost, my vermicompost, and some high quality organic castings from some where online?
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
DonPetro said:
Dude your mix sounds pretty much bang on. Just be mindful when using mushroom compost.
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/mushroom-compost-use-carefully
Insect frass is the tits. Neem meal is a must-have imo and rock phosphate is great. You might consider not using the dolomite lime or at least cutting down the amount you normally use. But really, it looks great.
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Ha, I didn't know that about mushroom compost. Thank you! I've been researching soil mixes for about a year now lol. I'll definitely be cutting the dolomite back a lot if I add in powdered oyster shells or any other liming agents. To be honest, I don't completely trust dolomite. It looks too much like salt for my brain to think it's "safe".
I wish I would have added neem to my first mix.. The fungus gnats have been driving me nuts. The only thing that helps is using apple cider vinegar in a small cup to attract and drown them.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
Okay guys, I'm looking for some critics (ha, never said that before).
I'm halfway through a small experiment between my own super soil mix, bagged soil, and a half half mix of both mixed in a notill planter (the plant before it was in bagged soil, then amended with my mix in a larger container). I've already made up my mind that organic rols notill is the only way I'll be growing from now on. I'm currently in 3 gallon air planters and will be upgrading to 15s when I mix up more soil after I crop my current harvest out.
Now, here's were the critiquing comes in. The batch of super soil I made to try my hand at it isn't too terribly diverse. My mix consisted of:
33% cococoir, 33% rice hulls, and 33% compost and ewc; amended with fulvic acid, azomite, greensand, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, high P bat Guano, dolomite lime, powdered egg shells, inoculated with endo Mycorrhizae at transplant.
I'm going to get rid of the Guano from now on as I think it's more harm than good in terms of the ecosystem and the bat colonies.
The ingredients I'm looking at adding are: insect frass, karanja, neem, biochar, glacial rock dust, oyster shell powder, maybe some basalt or rock phosphate.
I was possibly thinking of diversifying my compost too. As an apartment dweller my ability to produce a lot of vermicompost is severely limited and I'll have to order at least half of it when I up container sizes. So I was thinking maybe using a mix of leaf mold, mushroom compost, my vermicompost, and some high quality organic castings from some where online?
Click to expand...
I'd go with volcanic rock/pumice in place of the rice hulls, they break down fast in a rols.
Also I had weird results when I tried coco... less product at the end and somewhat slower growth, i'm not sure if it was due to the coco, but I prefer peat. When I went back to peat I didn't have anymore issues, sooo, but it could be a number of other variables, kinda the downfall of organics..
I don't see any crab meal, gotta love chitin my friend, that in conjuncture with the neem meal and it kicks booty on bugs. Not to mention the crab meal helps the soil from going acidic, like potted organic soils tend to do.
I'd leave the high p guano out, you have plenty of phosphorus with your other amendments. I think you kinda know that though.
leaf compost is some good stuff, check craigslist and you can probably find some hippies to sell you their vermicompost.
So i'd take out the rice hulls and replace with volcanic rock/pumice and biochar, i'd also add some oyster shells too for aeration.
I'd leave out the lime and add oyster flour, biochar and crab meal to help stabilize your ph.
All the stuff you are thinking of adding are good choices.
I use either 12 or 15 gal no till pots. I have both as my strains vary a lot and sometimes I need a smaller pot for my short indicas, but most of my strains are sativa hybrids, so they need a lil more room.
Just remember, all of those nutrients add up fast, so make sure you don't overdo it, they really don't need much food at all, especially if a good quality compost is being used.
And age the soil a minimum of a month, maybe longer if its cold, and a AACT would be a good idea while it sits.
I've seen many many many growers make a perfectly great soil to grow in, but simply not wait enough to allow it to age, and their plants look like crap, burned and clawed.
Fish bone meal is a good ROLS ingredient it breaks down real slow.
The slower the better for nutrient availability, that's why I don't like blood meal, fish emulsion, bat guano, manures, etc. WAAAAY too available to the plant.
But don't misunderstand me, all of those can and will grow fantastic herb, but ya gotta be careful.
Plus bovine stuff kinda freaks me out... mad cow disease..
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
I'd go with volcanic rock/pumice in place of the rice hulls, they break down fast in a rols.
Also I had weird results when I tried coco... less product at the end and somewhat slower growth, i'm not sure if it was due to the coco, but I prefer peat. When I went back to peat I didn't have anymore issues, sooo, but it could be a number of other variables, kinda the downfall of organics..
I don't see any crab meal, gotta love chitin my friend, that in conjuncture with the neem meal and it kicks booty on bugs. Not to mention the crab meal helps the soil from going acidic, like potted organic soils tend to do.
I'd leave the high p guano out, you have plenty of phosphorus with your other amendments. I think you kinda know that though.
leaf compost is some good stuff, check craigslist and you can probably find some hippies to sell you their vermicompost.
So i'd take out the rice hulls and replace with volcanic rock/pumice and biochar, i'd also add some oyster shells too for aeration.
I'd leave out the lime and add oyster flour, biochar and crab meal to help stabilize your ph.
All the stuff you are thinking of adding are good choices.
I use either 12 or 15 gal no till pots. I have both as my strains vary a lot and sometimes I need a smaller pot for my short indicas, but most of my strains are sativa hybrids, so they need a lil more room.
Just remember, all of those nutrients add up fast, so make sure you don't overdo it, they really don't need much food at all, especially if a good quality compost is being used.
And age the soil a minimum of a month, maybe longer if its cold, and a AACT would be a good idea while it sits.
I've seen many many many growers make a perfectly great soil to grow in, but simply not wait enough to allow it to age, and their plants look like crap, burned and clawed.
Fish bone meal is a good ROLS ingredient it breaks down real slow.
The slower the better for nutrient availability, that's why I don't like blood meal, fish emulsion, bat guano, manures, etc. WAAAAY too available to the plant.
But don't misunderstand me, all of those can and will grow fantastic herb, but ya gotta be careful.
Plus bovine stuff kinda freaks me out... mad cow disease..
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Wow, lots of usable information there. Thank you!
I was curious what would happen to the rice hulls after a couple cycles. I'll invest in some pumice.
I'm honestly not a fan of Coco. But I have like 20 gallons of it so I need to just use it lol. I'd prefer peat over Coco any day.
I've scoured cl and no one has anything worth the price. It's either way to expensive or garbage. I'm definitely getting rid of the Guano. Almost everything about it bugs me, from way it's harvested to how fast it's available and then depleted from the soil.
When I mix this batch up it'll probably sit about a month or so before it gets used. I usually moisten my mix up with a molasses water before letting it sit. How beneficial would an aact be over just plain molasses? I assume it would produce a huge boost in bacteria to break down the nutrients faster?
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
Wow, lots of usable information there. Thank you!
I was curious what would happen to the rice hulls after a couple cycles. I'll invest in some pumice.
I'm honestly not a fan of Coco. But I have like 20 gallons of it so I need to just use it lol. I'd prefer peat over Coco any day.
I've scoured cl and no one has anything worth the price. It's either way to expensive or garbage. I'm definitely getting rid of the Guano. Almost everything about it bugs me, from way it's harvested to how fast it's available and then depleted from the soil.
When I mix this batch up it'll probably sit about a month or so before it gets used. I usually moisten my mix up with a molasses water before letting it sit. How beneficial would an aact be over just plain molasses? I assume it would produce a huge boost in bacteria to break down the nutrients faster?
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I am happy to help you, any time.
I'd use an aact over molasses any day, in fact i'd steer you away from the molasses at all (prior to planting), it's purely soluble and it adds a lot of stuff to the soil you may not want (micros), don't get me wrong molasses is some great stuff, but I use it only for aacts, and very very occasionally as a cal/mag/pottasium supplement.
 
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Southerner

Southerner

Well-Known Member
Mix in some blended up mosquito dunks for protection against fungus gnats. I usually go at 1 dunk per square foot of soil.
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
Southerner said:
Do you even know what's in them? Can't wait to be shown how Bti is going to hurt anything.
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Yes I do actually so drop your attitude man, I'm not here to argue. My comment wasn't disrespectful.
I know that when consumed through food plants bti (I eat mine as well as smoke and use them in a special lotion) can remain in your body for over 6 months. The studies in THE 80s showed negligent amounts of damage done in a small amount of their testing, but there were also a lot of areas that didn't get covered. I've read the studies back to front and I do not trust something like that in a plant that I'm going to put in my body. I don't trust bti for the same reason I don't trust dolomite lime, shit looks unhealthy.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
Yes I do actually so drop your attitude man, I'm not here to argue. My comment wasn't disrespectful.
I know that when consumed through food plants bti (I eat mine as well as smoke and use them in a special lotion) can remain in your body for over 6 months. The studies in THE 80s showed negligent amounts of damage done in a small amount of their testing, but there were also a lot of areas that didn't get covered. I've read the studies back to front and I do not trust something like that in a plant that I'm going to put in my body. I don't trust bti for the same reason I don't trust dolomite lime, shit looks unhealthy.
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What information did you dig up on the safety issues of BTI bits?

Unless you're applying the product directly on to the leaves/bud, I'm not sure how this bacterium could end up being ingested.
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
What information did you dig up on the safety issues of BTI bits?

Unless you're applying the product directly on to the leaves/bud, I'm not sure how this bacterium could end up being ingested.
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http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/bt-ext.html
The same way that heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, etc can all end up inside of a plant.
I'm not trying to say that it's inherently bad. I just don't trust it for a number of reasons. But I also don't even trust most animal byproducts anymore like Guano, bone/blood meal, etc. I'm not a purist or an elitist, but I do have an immune system that doesn't function as it should, so I have to be cautious about what I ingest.
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
What information did you dig up on the safety issues of BTI bits?

Unless you're applying the product directly on to the leaves/bud, I'm not sure how this bacterium could end up being ingested.
Click to expand...
I pulled a couple of pdfs from studies too but I don't think we can post files on here can we?
 
Southerner

Southerner

Well-Known Member
All I did was offer a different idea than your own, so I don't know what the attitude comment is about. The PDF you linked basically says over and over that Bti is fine.

Now you said you have a fickle immune system so i could understand being pretty particular. However, you are the one with the fungus gnats and all I did was offer a solution that all the of the growers I know have used at one point or another.

Both Bti and dolomite lime are a natural part of plant ecosystems on earth. Anyway, that's all I have to say about it, so carry on.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Southerner said:
The PDF you linked basically says over and over that Bti is fine.
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That was my impression of the PDF as well. It seemed to suggest that BTI is completely harmless to plants/humans/most other insects.

Quote:

"ideal for pest management because of its specificity to pests and because of its lack of toxicity to humans or the natural enemies of many crop pests."
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
Southerner said:
All I did was offer a different idea than your own, so I don't know what the attitude comment is about. The PDF you linked basically says over and over that Bti is fine.

Now you said you have a fickle immune system so i could understand being pretty particular. However, you are the one with the fungus gnats and all I did was offer a solution that all the of the growers I know have used at one point or another.

Both Bti and dolomite line occur naturally on earth. Anyway, that's all I have to say about it, so carry on.
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*Sigh* this is why I partially dislike non-verbal communication. It's so difficult to find connotation and whatnot. Again, I didn't mean any disrespect and maybe my words came off differently than I had intended.
I didn't mean to dismiss your suggestion as inferior or anything like that. I just already knew about BTI and had an internal debate on its use a while ago.
I should have made a small note about my interest in using ingredients that are as safe as possible to ingest. I apologize if my words were offensive.

It's relatively safe to use, yes. But it isn't without its concerns. And with our understanding of the human immune system drastically being proven to be very lacking, makes me even more cautious about what I use. And just because it occurs naturally doesn't mean it's safe to put in our bodies. Cyanide occurs naturally (:
 
C

CannaBare

Well-Known Member
Midwest Weedist said:
*Sigh* this is why I partially dislike non-verbal communication. It's so difficult to find connotation and whatnot. Again, I didn't mean any disrespect and maybe my words came off differently than I had intended.
I didn't mean to dismiss your suggestion as inferior or anything like that. I just already knew about BTI and had an internal debate on its use a while ago.
I should have made a small note about my interest in using ingredients that are as safe as possible to ingest. I apologize if my words were offensive.

It's relatively safe to use, yes. But it isn't without its concerns. And with our understanding of the human immune system drastically being proven to be very lacking, makes me even more cautious about what I use. And just because it occurs naturally doesn't mean it's safe to put in our bodies. Cyanide occurs naturally (:
Click to expand...
I just would like to say that with the proper nutrition your body can fight anything. Don't ask the doctors, they are not legally able to tell you that *wink wink* lol. But we are not lacking, If we were we would not survive nature we would not be here.
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
CannaBare said:
I just would like to say that with the proper nutrition your body can fight anything. Don't ask the doctors, they are not legally able to tell you that *wink wink* lol. But we are not lacking, If we were we would not survive nature we would not be here.
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Doctors are just legal drug dealers. I buy if I truly need pharmaceutical help. Otherwise it's all natural
 
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