uninterruptible power supply (battery backup)

haole420

Active Member
i didn't want to hijack another thread that this came up in, so i started a new one.

it occurred to me a few months ago that i could put an old computer uninterpretible power supply (UPS) to use to backup my air and water pumps in case of a power outage, tripped GFCI, or tripped breaker. according to the calculator on APC's website, it says my particular unit will give me less than 16 minutes of backup power, hardly worth getting a replacement battery for.

so i priced larger capacity UPSs. if you do get a UPS, get an APC UPS. don't DIY unless you're really familiar with circuits and power. that shit can catch on fire or worse if you don't know what you're doing.

once you figure out your load (total watts), go to APC's website and use one of several tools to figure out which model gives you the run time you want.

http://www.apc.com/tools/ups_selector/

my power draw is 55watts. for $309.99 MSRP i can get a 1000VA UPS that will give me 80 minutes of run time, for $589.00 i can get 302 minutes (1500VA), and for $939.00 i can get 421 minutes (2200VA).

i want around 4 hours of backup power, so the $589 1500VA model seems best suited for me. replacement batteries cost $179.99 MSRP. in my experience, the batteries go bad after about 5 years. even before the battery dies, the max run time will get shorter and shorter from day 1, so better to go beefier while you're investing in a UPS. of course, you could always change your battery before it stops being able to hold a charge.

it would suck to spend money on a ups, have it just charging for 4 years, then when you need it, have it only provide 1/4 the time you thought it would. that's why 4 hours is sort of my minimum. worse case scenario, say, 4 years after plugging it in, even if the battery can only hold 1/5 a full charge, i'm still getting an hour of run time.

it's still only a band-aid. when the power goes out where i live, it is likely to be out for days, not hours. my neighbors will also be without power too, so running a generator won't seem so unusual. i could spend another $500 on a 3200watt portable generator that would run my entire room, including lights, for as long as i feed it gas, diesel, or propane.

so for a complete cover-my-ass during prolonged power outage solution, i'm looking at roughly $1000 for a small 4x4' 1200watt grow.

i'll think about it...
 

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Hiya M8,

I have a 1500watt (1100 continuous) inverter, with 2 deep cycle marine batteries in parallel w/diodes to protect the batteries from being drawn down by a battery that has failed. I have about $350 into the setup, and that includes a dual bank trickle charger ( like the kind you mount in the back of a bass boat) I can run 5 pumps ( 60+watts) 4 small fans ( 120mm 14watt ea.) and two 2' 2 bulb flos (78+ watt) and my 27 watt air pump and it can go for days as far as I can tell, due to everything but the air pump being intermittent (lights for up to 18hrs if need be). Have not seen the max yet, hope I never do. The benefit of this setup over an ups is the ability to replace individual components as opposed to the whole thing, and you can add another battery or 2 for even longer operation times and still be operating withing the inverters ratings safely.

Peace

Asmallvoice
 

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
for that much why not get a generator
A generator is going to require an operator, unless you get one with auto start and a transfer switch, minimum $3.5k+ and it will still not perform to the capacity of the inverter with batteries. Running a 4-5k watt generator 24/7 is going to get beyond what most will be able to do for an extended period of time (as in mj cultivation), with todays gas prices (gas of any kind) is going to get rough on you in a hurry. Please note, we are hopefully talking only short durations of normal power interuptions, but should things get whacky and need to go a week or so, This setup will keep you plants going and doing it with the utmost attention to stealth, safety ( no carbon monoxide) and leaves the generator for more important things like the fridge and BEER!!!!!!...lol

Peace

Asmallvoice
 

jtmx23

Active Member
Hiya M8,

I have a 1500watt (1100 continuous) inverter, with 2 deep cycle marine batteries in parallel w/diodes to protect the batteries from being drawn down by a battery that has failed. I have about $350 into the setup, and that includes a dual bank trickle charger ( like the kind you mount in the back of a bass boat) I can run 5 pumps ( 60+watts) 4 small fans ( 120mm 14watt ea.) and two 2' 2 bulb flos (78+ watt) and my 27 watt air pump and it can go for days as far as I can tell, due to everything but the air pump being intermittent (lights for up to 18hrs if need be). Have not seen the max yet, hope I never do. The benefit of this setup over an ups is the ability to replace individual components as opposed to the whole thing, and you can add another battery or 2 for even longer operation times and still be operating withing the inverters ratings safely.

Peace

Asmallvoice
Sounds like a good idea. I was just thinking about doing the same thing. I'm curious does the backup power from the batteries turn the equipment on if the power fails, or do you have to go in and plug everything into the inverter?
 

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good idea. I was just thinking about doing the same thing. I'm curious does the backup power from the batteries turn the equipment on if the power fails, or do you have to go in and plug everything into the inverter?
I have the normal power keeping a pair of time delay ( 1 is delay on, 1 is delay off ) (with 110v triggers) relays energized, which keeps the inverter output isolated. When the power goes out the relay will change state and allow the power from the inverter to go to the setup automatically. When normal power is restored, one relay will keep the normal power isolated untill the other relay can isolate the inverter power once again and then let the normal power back to the setup. That way, I never allow the 2 power sources to merge, as that would be catastrophic or worse...lol

I am in the middle of finishing my flower room and when I get that all completed ( it is a full blown mess at the moment, with all the Christmas stuff going on, but I am almost done with that, then back to the lab...lol) I will go into greater detail on the backup system with pics and a schematic incase anyone else wishes to incorporate a battery backup system in thier grow rooms.

Peace

Asmallvoice
 

haole420

Active Member
I have the normal power keeping a pair of time delay ( 1 is delay on, 1 is delay off ) (with 110v triggers) relays energized, which keeps the inverter output isolated. When the power goes out the relay will change state and allow the power from the inverter to go to the setup automatically. When normal power is restored, one relay will keep the normal power isolated untill the other relay can isolate the inverter power once again and then let the normal power back to the setup. That way, I never allow the 2 power sources to merge, as that would be catastrophic or worse...lol

I am in the middle of finishing my flower room and when I get that all completed ( it is a full blown mess at the moment, with all the Christmas stuff going on, but I am almost done with that, then back to the lab...lol) I will go into greater detail on the backup system with pics and a schematic incase anyone else wishes to incorporate a battery backup system in thier grow rooms.

Peace

Asmallvoice
what all do you have hooked up to it? how many kwh does your setup store? what's your total draw? and how long can your setup keep things going? just wondering so i can calculate how much battery i'm going to need if i went with this kind of setup...
 

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
what all do you have hooked up to it? how many kwh does your setup store? what's your total draw? and how long can your setup keep things going? just wondering so i can calculate how much battery i'm going to need if i went with this kind of setup...

Please refer to post #2 as it tells what is running off of the inverter. I have ran it for 4 days and showed no signs of battery drain to mention, a good trolling motor battery can run an inverter with a small load for a damn good while, and I have 2 batteries to pull from. Please note, you have to stay within the working range of the inverter, all the batteries in the world are no good if you try to pull 1500watts on a 1000watt inverter, so there is the weak link in the equation. If you are going to need 2000 or more watts of power for any extended duration, you may want to consider other options, the cost is going to get higher for a decent inverter that allows a constant pull of more than 1500watts continuous. just a thought to ponder.

Adding a small solar trickle charger will allow some recoup even when the power is down. I have looked at mounting an alternator on a stationary bike for a charger, it would work, I just have to find some goofy bastard to peddle it, cause I am not ...lol

Peace

Asmallvoice
 

MegaMarclar

Member
I have used UPS for my computers for years. One thing you might consider is using a larger battery. basically, a UPS just has a small gel-cell or AGM battery inside. you can simply splice the connectors and hook up for example, a Optima marine deep-cycle battery.
 

haole420

Active Member
I have used UPS for my computers for years. One thing you might consider is using a larger battery. basically, a UPS just has a small gel-cell or AGM battery inside. you can simply splice the connectors and hook up for example, a Optima marine deep-cycle battery.
Sounds safe as long as you don't go over the rated amps i guess. i remember reading a bunch if diy articles, though, with crazy pictures of burned out ups and dire warnings from the authors.

How well do you (or anyone reading) know circuits? Any ee or ce folks out there? Knowing what conditions cause diy backup systems to catch on fire would put my mind at ease. I've got an old ups that's ripe for repurposing!
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
A generator is going to require an operator, unless you get one with auto start and a transfer switch, minimum $3.5k+ and it will still not perform to the capacity of the inverter with batteries. Running a 4-5k watt generator 24/7 is going to get beyond what most will be able to do for an extended period of time (as in mj cultivation), with todays gas prices (gas of any kind) is going to get rough on you in a hurry. Please note, we are hopefully talking only short durations of normal power interuptions, but should things get whacky and need to go a week or so, This setup will keep you plants going and doing it with the utmost attention to stealth, safety ( no carbon monoxide) and leaves the generator for more important things like the fridge and BEER!!!!!!...lol
I agree about the batteries and inverter and have the same setup (boat owner also)and yes a great thing for power failure. I did the same thing with the relays but actually put 2 in series so if one stuck closed no issues and they're cheap lol. I gotta say though WTF are you talking about with the generator lol. Operator? I fill mine and walk away for 14 hrs and come back and fill it again :). It runs for 4 or 5 days at a time as my power is at best sporadic with all these storms!!! As for the gas usage, 5 gals or 22 litres will get me around 15 hrs and it is a 4000 watt, so I think thats not out of reach for most people, fuck, sell an ounce a year to pay for the fuel and oil lol. But yes not a good option for apartments lol unless you can put in on the balcony!
 

georgeforeman

Well-Known Member
make sure you get a battery tender. My huge battery failed quickly with the last power outage since it was never used (drained and recharged)
 

PROF XAVIER

Well-Known Member
I have the normal power keeping a pair of time delay ( 1 is delay on, 1 is delay off ) (with 110v triggers) relays energized, which keeps the inverter output isolated. When the power goes out the relay will change state and allow the power from the inverter to go to the setup automatically. When normal power is restored, one relay will keep the normal power isolated untill the other relay can isolate the inverter power once again and then let the normal power back to the setup. That way, I never allow the 2 power sources to merge, as that would be catastrophic or worse...lol

I am in the middle of finishing my flower room and when I get that all completed ( it is a full blown mess at the moment, with all the Christmas stuff going on, but I am almost done with that, then back to the lab...lol) I will go into greater detail on the backup system with pics and a schematic incase anyone else wishes to incorporate a battery backup system in thier grow rooms.

Peace

Asmallvoice[/QUOTE
I for one would love it if you could provide a tutorial or a back-up for dummies guide!! I'm sure you would be a hero in the RIU community!! I wanted to do something similar for two high pressure pumps and a small LED backup light, just in case. But I don't have a clue as to how so if you can help, it would be greatly appreciated brother!!
 

StealthyGrinch

New Member
I have the normal power keeping a pair of time delay ( 1 is delay on, 1 is delay off ) (with 110v triggers) relays energized, which keeps the inverter output isolated. When the power goes out the relay will change state and allow the power from the inverter to go to the setup automatically. When normal power is restored, one relay will keep the normal power isolated untill the other relay can isolate the inverter power once again and then let the normal power back to the setup. That way, I never allow the 2 power sources to merge, as that would be catastrophic or worse...lol

I am in the middle of finishing my flower room and when I get that all completed ( it is a full blown mess at the moment, with all the Christmas stuff going on, but I am almost done with that, then back to the lab...lol) I will go into greater detail on the backup system with pics and a schematic incase anyone else wishes to incorporate a battery backup system in thier grow rooms.

Peace

Asmallvoice
I'd be interested in the schematics you used for this setup. I'm running 2 400 watt bulbs currently.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I have the normal power keeping a pair of time delay ( 1 is delay on, 1 is delay off ) (with 110v triggers) relays energized, which keeps the inverter output isolated. When the power goes out the relay will change state and allow the power from the inverter to go to the setup automatically. When normal power is restored, one relay will keep the normal power isolated untill the other relay can isolate the inverter power once again and then let the normal power back to the setup. That way, I never allow the 2 power sources to merge, as that would be catastrophic or worse...lol

I am in the middle of finishing my flower room and when I get that all completed ( it is a full blown mess at the moment, with all the Christmas stuff going on, but I am almost done with that, then back to the lab...lol) I will go into greater detail on the backup system with pics and a schematic incase anyone else wishes to incorporate a battery backup system in thier grow rooms.

Peace

Asmallvoice
ME! I TOTALLY WANNA TUTORIAL!

I live for this kind of shit, and you've clearly gone a long step further than I have. I was just thinking of running pumps and such on short cycle times to extend the active duration.

I love the inverter and relay setup, you gotta show me how that's done!
 

vostok

Well-Known Member
A good idea if you grow in an area with power outages all the time
or are stuck with a manipulative utility company
fiddling its costings to squeeze more from the local govt. & peeps?

a useful but costly idea
but still good
you may not need heavy wattages to shine lumens on your plants
a handful of cfl's will do in a pinch
at least until the power comes back online
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
A good idea if you grow in an area with power outages all the time
or are stuck with a manipulative utility company
fiddling its costings to squeeze more from the local govt. & peeps?

a useful but costly idea
but still good
you may not need heavy wattages to shine lumens on your plants
a handful of cfl's will do in a pinch
at least until the power comes back online
Only need a couple per room, this is good.

I only need to run one water pump per system to keep roots from drowning. Even then it only needs to run for one minute in five. This adds up to a long duration with a small UPS.
 

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
You nailed it bro. UPS's can save your ass during a power outage! I party with Aeroponics so I use a timer that goes on for 1 minute and then stays off for 5 minutes. A decent size UPS will last for days. The UPS is for when you are not home and lose power. Pretty rare for me.

When I'm home I fire up the Honda 1000W generator. It has enough power to run all the pumps. TV/Computer or a couple of shop lights. 5 gal of gas lasts forever! They are also super quite. Those cheap, loud generators from Home Depot will drive everyone in the neighborhood nuts! Trust me bro, it's fucking torture, don't buy one!

The next step up is something that can power a light or two. The Honda 3000W is the king. It's also super quite and will power 2-1000W lights, fans and pumps without breaking the bank. If you live in Bumfuck and have power failures all the time, it could save your crop and ass at the same time!

Of course none of this helps you if you forget to plug the pump in after the res change...
 
Top