The forbidden TRUTH

New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Where are you getting your definitions from? Below is Webster's -

ra·tio·nale
noun \ˌra-shə-ˈnal\
: the reason or explanation for something


Full Definition of RATIONALE
1
: an explanation of controlling principles of opinion, belief, practice, or phenomena
2
: an underlying reason : basis
See rationale defined for English-language learners »
See rationale defined for kids »
Examples of RATIONALE
  1. <the rationale for starting the school day an hour later is that kids will supposedly get an extra hour of sleep>


Actually, I compared your delusion to the delusions of other forum clowns. Of course it's my ego, the main reason anyone posts on any forum, or expresses their personal beliefs, thoughts, ideas and feelings anywhere is for the sake of wanting to express oneself. That is the ego at work. You write ego like it's a negative thing, and that is after your agreeing that is a necessary thing for human progress in your enlightenment thread. My judging the intellectual content of your posts shows no lack of self awareness, and I do not see it as unintelligent. The ego has no place in philosophy? Says who?

What do I assume, and why is it too much?

You present yourself as educated, and well-versed in philosophy and cognitive science, yet you try to shift the Burden of Proof for your claims? That's a no-no even in Philosophy 101 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof.
Instead of providing proof or even support for your positive claims, you ask others to disprove them. That is a logical fallacy entitled Argument from Ignorance - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

You cannot be taken seriously when you are unfamiliar with even the informal logical fallacies. I suggest you familiarize yourself with them - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies.
Violating them is the main reason the other forum clowns I mention fall for their own bullshit, don't fall prey to their mistakes...


You seem to count on the fact that it an ambiguous term, that way you can manipulate the word to fit your new age pet ideas and further your agenda of misinformation. The dictionary is a great resource to help clarify the meanings of words. Let's take a look -

in·tu·i·tion
noun \ˌin-tü-ˈi-shən, -tyü-\
: a natural ability or power that makes it possible to know something without any proof or evidence : a feeling that guides a person to act a certain way without fully understanding why

: something that is known or understood without proof or evidence


Full Definition of INTUITION
1
: quick and ready insight
2
a : immediate apprehension or cognition

b : knowledge or conviction gained by intuition

c : the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference

I can see it's appeal for you, it's a LOT easier than study, logic, reason and concerted rational thought backed by facts and evidence. I study cognitive science and, for a layman, I am pretty well-versed in how the human mind operates. If you want to use logic effectively, study the informal fallacies because at this point you do not. If you want to know how the mind actually works, study some cognitive science. If you want to state that you have, please provide those sources, and how they back up your new age claims...



You'd better hope not, because if you could, it doesn't seem like you would have access to it. Again, you are avoiding defining and clarifying concepts and the meaning of words, because without being able to keep them vague and muddy your philosophy seems to boil down to a bunch of feel good, easy-to-swallow assertions with no evidence or logic to back them up...
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Thank you Mr. Durden for the links, I will indeed take a look, when addressing me try to remember that nothing is important, I can't quite tell if you are getting serious or not. Ì am not stating that the ego is a negative thing I'm saying that it is unintelligent, which it is, it is what it is. There is reason for conveying ones self other than for self gratification, look deeper at your dictionaries definition of rationale, it is tracing the cause 90 the effect, that is reason. Trust me I am well aware of the inner workings of the mind, it is all very intuitive you might say.
"Genius ' have strong intuitions in their field and build upon these intuitions with tremendous momentum" I forget who said that.
 
New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
A very wise man came here long ago and told you the exact same thing that I am saying about intuition, about the process of recollection, about using memory and logic to come up with the correct answer to a practical question, his name was Plato, and you thought he lost his self in his theory of forms so you denounced him as a fool, if only you realized that the truth is not important.
"When one has achieved the hight of heights, when they try to help others achieve it for themselves, they often find themselves the subject of ridicule, even violence " Plato
"If ever a man who is truly just shall come into this world, they shall nail him to a cross for all the world to see" Plato 400 years before the Christ.
 
New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
The ego has no place in philosophy? Says who?

What do I assume, and why is it too much
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The ego has no place in philosophy because it is counter productive, just as it has no place in building a house or playing sports, in fact the Ego is finding it hard to find its place these days, it is becoming an old world thing, evolution is now going beyond ego, that is enlightenment, transcending the ego by recognizing your true Self as Awareness not the Thinker (Ego).

You assume to much because the evidence has not been shown to me, and I have provided my own proof and support for my deductive reasoning, you are reading too quickly, that is why (reason) you are not fully grasping what I am trying to convey. Take a look at my last few posts on my enlightenment thread, it should prove to you what I mean about intuition by using your own rational and intuitive mind.
 
New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
Philosophy is about finding and understanding the truth, the ego has no interest in the truth it's only concern is being right and making others wrong, it gives the false self a sense of superiority, this is why the ego is so prevalent in sports, because winning and defeating gives the same sense of superiority, but you here time and time again how important it is to keep the ego out of the game, because the professionals intuitively know that it will cause players to lose focus.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
New Age United said:
The ego has no place in philosophy because it is counter productive, just as it has no place in building a house or playing sports, in fact the Ego is finding it hard to find its place these days, it is becoming an old world thing, evolution is now going beyond ego, that is enlightenment, transcending the ego by recognizing your true Self as Awareness not the Thinker (Ego).
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Here you go again, you make outrageous positive claims with no support, links to credible (or any) sources, evidence or logic to back them up. Just because you make a statement does not mean that it is true, why is that difficult for you to understand? Let us look at the definition of ego so that we may discuss it intelligently -
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ego
ego
noun \ˈē-(ˌ)gō also ˈe-\
: the opinion that you have about yourself

psychology : a part of the mind that senses and adapts to the real world

plural egos

Full Definition of EGO
1
: the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world
2
a : egotism 2

b : self-esteem 1
3
: the one of the three divisions of the psyche in psychoanalytic theory that serves as the organized conscious mediator between the person and reality especially by functioning both in the perception of and adaptation to reality — compare id, superego

We see from the above that the ego is an individual's sense of self, or I-ness. It is the part of the mind that senses and adapts to objective reality. You say it plays no part in philosophy when philosophy is thought out, written by and for ego driven sentient creatures. It plays no part in sports when the main object of sports is to compete to triumph over fellow human beings and show who is the best in a given contest. It has no place in building a house when contractors constantly debate over their best ways of completing a given task, and the home itself is being built largely for the vanity of ego driven creatures. Simple logic and reason show that you are incorrect. The ego is the basis, motivation and driving force for almost every activity in the Western world, yet it is hard for you to see it's place these days? I am clearly thinking (as opposed to intuiting) for myself on this issue, while you seem to be spouting word for word new age philosophical bullshit that you did not originate, or even understand. Instead of simply making statements that are obviously false, how about supporting them with logic, reason, and real world examples as I have done for my position in this paragraph?
You assume to much because the evidence has not been shown to me, and I have provided my own proof and support for my deductive reasoning, you are reading too quickly, that is why (reason) you are not fully grasping what I am trying to convey.
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What am I assuming? What evidence are you referring to that hasn't been shown to you? I have seen absolutely no proof or support for your deductive reasoning, I've only seen unsupported statements that others easily refute at every turn. Please link us to this proof and support of yours, so that we can see that you're not full of shit. I'm am picking up what you are putting down, it just that it makes no sense and you have yet to defend or support it. It seems like YOU are not fully grasping what you are trying to convey...
Take a look at my last few posts on my enlightenment thread, it should prove to you what I mean about intuition by using your own rational and intuitive mind.
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Perhaps I'll be able to do that later. That thread is biased and unsupported, full of specious 'wisdom' that could be from any dime-store new age literature. Largely a waste of time imo...
 
New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Here you go again, you make outrageous positive claims with no support, links to credible (or any) sources, evidence or logic to back them up. Just because you make a statement does not mean that it is true, why is that difficult for you to understand? Let us look at the definition of ego so that we may discuss it intelligently -
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ego
ego
noun \ˈē-(ˌ)gō also ˈe-\
: the opinion that you have about yourself

psychology : a part of the mind that senses and adapts to the real world

plural egos

Full Definition of EGO
1
: the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world
2
a : egotism 2

b : self-esteem 1
3
: the one of the three divisions of the psyche in psychoanalytic theory that serves as the organized conscious mediator between the person and reality especially by functioning both in the perception of and adaptation to reality — compare id, superego

We see from the above that the ego is an individual's sense of self, or I-ness. It is the part of the mind that senses and adapts to objective reality. You say it plays no part in philosophy when philosophy is thought out, written by and for ego driven sentient creatures. It plays no part in sports when the main object of sports is to compete to triumph over fellow human beings and show who is the best in a given contest. It has no place in building a house when contractors constantly debate over their best ways of completing a given task, and the home itself is being built largely for the vanity of ego driven creatures. Simple logic and reason show that you are incorrect. The ego is the basis, motivation and driving force for almost every activity in the Western world, yet it is hard for you to see it's place these days? I am clearly thinking (as opposed to intuiting) for myself on this issue, while you seem to be spouting word for word new age philosophical bullshit that you did not originate, or even understand. Instead of simply making statements that are obviously false, how about supporting them with logic, reason, and real world examples as I have done for my position in this paragraph?


What am I assuming? What evidence are you referring to that hasn't been shown to you? I have seen absolutely no proof or support for your deductive reasoning, I've only seen unsupported statements that others easily refute at every turn. Please link us to this proof and support of yours, so that we can see that you're not full of shit. I'm am picking up what you are putting down, it just that it makes no sense and you have yet to defend or support it. It seems like YOU are not fully grasping what you are trying to convey...


Perhaps I'll be able to do that later. That thread is biased and unsupported, full of specious 'wisdom' that could be from any dime-store new age literature. Largely a waste of time imo...
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If you want to fully grasp what the Ego is then I would highly recommend A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. The dictionary is very limited in its explanation of things, as is the encyclopedia. If you want to fully understand intuition I would highly recommend The Republic by Plato, pay very close attention when he speaks about recollection.

Here is the link to my direct evidence, read from 3 post down till the end, by all rationality it should be proven to you, my definition of Intuition.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/does-anyone-want-to-receive-spiritual-enlightenment.644410/page-21#post-11069265
 
New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
Have you ever worked in carpentry, they spend so much time debating that nothing ever gets done, and the needs of all human beings on this planet could easily be met if not for the vanity of the ego.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
New Age United said:
If you want to fully grasp what the Ego is then I would highly recommend A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. The dictionary is very limited in its explanation of things, as is the encyclopedia. If you want to fully understand intuition I would highly recommend The Republic by Plato, pay very close attention when he speaks about recollection.
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Tolle, of course. Tolle is a under-educated charlatan who utilizes pseudo-science and regurgitated Eastern mumbo-jumbo. He didn't even make it through high school, and has never studied any psychology. What the hell would he know? I got through half of The Power of Now, and just couldn't take it anymore. Here's some good debunking of his bullshit -

http://www.blacksunjournal.com/books/1844_debunking-the-power-of-now-introduction_2009.html
http://artofericwayne.com/2013/09/19/when-is-spirituality-just-blaming-the-victim/
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20832558

At least you didn't break out the Chopra card, so that's something. I've read The Republic a few times, it's required in every philosophy 101 course. Plato was brilliant in many ways, and so full of shit in many others. Knowledge is a matter of recollection? There is absolutely no support for this idea. It is simply a pet idea that he favored with no support in reality. Aristotle is much more rational and coherent in his observations on objective reality. I think that Plato has done mankind a HUGE disservice with his inane philosophical and political ideas, if we went down a more Aristotelian path, we would have avoided a lot of suffering and retardation of human progress...
Here is the link to my direct evidence, read from 3 post down till the end, by all rationality it should be proven to you, my definition of Intuition.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/does-anyone-want-to-receive-spiritual-enlightenment.644410/page-21#post-11069265
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Okay, I re-read the three posts. There is no evidence contained there. What is shows is your desperate need for your idea (not even your idea, one you are simply parroting) of intuition to be true, but there is no support to be found, just assertions. Assertions are not evidence or support for anything. To use your example, our intuition tells us that the Earth is flat, and as you state, our intuition is incorrect on this point as it often is regarding other great truths. True, we have discovered that the Earth is a sphere, but it was NOT intuition that led to this discovery, but counter-intuitive reason, logic and science. You use inane language of True intuitives and False intuitives, then insist that we should always trust our intuition as it will always lead us to the truth. If that were true, why would there be a need for the term False Intuitive? It's just stupid. It is NOT intuition that recognizes the counter-intuitive, it is logic, reason and the scientific method that goes beyond intuition and recognizes the counter-intuitive. Intuition is often unreliable and often wrong, it would behoove you to grow up and recognize this simple fact. Let go of your irrational need for this phenomena of intuition to be fool proof, it is easily shown that this is not the case. We have discovered much better ways to acquire knowledge, if you can let go of your fear, and stop believing all that hacks have to sell you, you may embrace them...
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
IMO, there are two modes of intelligence. One is paternal, and creates order, etc. The other is maternal, and seeks to relate to the order.

Both of them, in balanced proportion, is what is meant by 'self'. Logic (outward, seeking information) intuition (inward, seeking understanding).

Science is too heady for most people, and understanding is...

Fuck, watch the news.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
IMO, there are two modes of intelligence. One is paternal, and creates order, etc. The other is maternal, and seeks to relate to the order.

Both of them, in balanced proportion, is what is meant by 'self'. Logic (outward, seeking information) intuition (inward, seeking understanding).

Science is too heady for most people, and understanding is...

Fuck, watch the news.
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Hey, Eye! My favorite theist. It is so great to see you again, it has been a while. What have you been up to? Are you back, or just popping in? I see you have an edge to you now, using the F word in its entirety ;)
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Hey, Eye! My favorite theist. It is so great to see you again, it has been a while. What have you been up to? Are you back, or just popping in? I see you have an edge to you now, using the F word in its entirety ;)
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Dude! I lol'd about the F word :) Very nice to you again also! The wit in here is awesome, usually was.

I have a mostly seasonal occupation so I have more time to pop in here during the frigid months. Lots has changed, nothing has changed, I see I see :)
 
New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Tolle, of course. Tolle is a under-educated charlatan who utilizes pseudo-science and regurgitated Eastern mumbo-jumbo. He didn't even make it through high school, and has never studied any psychology. What the hell would he know? I got through half of The Power of Now, and just couldn't take it anymore. Here's some good debunking of his bullshit -

http://www.blacksunjournal.com/books/1844_debunking-the-power-of-now-introduction_2009.html
http://artofericwayne.com/2013/09/19/when-is-spirituality-just-blaming-the-victim/
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/20832558

At least you didn't break out the Chopra card, so that's something. I've read The Republic a few times, it's required in every philosophy 101 course. Plato was brilliant in many ways, and so full of shit in many others. Knowledge is a matter of recollection? There is absolutely no support for this idea. It is simply a pet idea that he favored with no support in reality. Aristotle is much more rational and coherent in his observations on objective reality. I think that Plato has done mankind a HUGE disservice with his inane philosophical and political ideas, if we went down a more Aristotelian path, we would have avoided a lot of suffering and retardation of human progress...


Okay, I re-read the three posts. There is no evidence contained there. What is shows is your desperate need for your idea (not even your idea, one you are simply parroting) of intuition to be true, but there is no support to be found, just assertions. Assertions are not evidence or support for anything. To use your example, our intuition tells us that the Earth is flat, and as you state, our intuition is incorrect on this point as it often is regarding other great truths. True, we have discovered that the Earth is a sphere, but it was NOT intuition that led to this discovery, but counter-intuitive reason, logic and science. You use inane language of True intuitives and False intuitives, then insist that we should always trust our intuition as it will always lead us to the truth. If that were true, why would there be a need for the term False Intuitive? It's just stupid. It is NOT intuition that recognizes the counter-intuitive, it is logic, reason and the scientific method that goes beyond intuition and recognizes the counter-intuitive. Intuition is often unreliable and often wrong, it would behoove you to grow up and recognize this simple fact. Let go of your irrational need for this phenomena of intuition to be fool proof, it is easily shown that this is not the case. We have discovered much better ways to acquire knowledge, if you can let go of your fear, and stop believing all that hacks have to sell you, you may embrace them...
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Tolle is under educated, just as Einstein was, that does not undermine the truth he speaks or the wisdom of his insights, just as my lack of education does not undermine my own insights, it does indeed set me back in conveying myself, especially to someone as educated as your self, it is good to know that you have a background in philosophy, this is one of my favorite fields of study, excuse my temporary ignorance, if you could not finish the Power of Now than I must put you in DaVinci's 3 types of people as "those who do not see" and give up entirely on trying to break through to you, thank you for taking the time to read the last posts. Perhaps I could learn more about philosophy from you, I will take a look and familiarize myself with the logical fallacies and I will avoid shifting the Burden of proof, then I would like to start a debate with you to honestly educate myself in Philosophy.
 
New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
Btw, I never parroted the idea and some of those insights on intuition are my own, ie recognizing the counter-intuitive and finding the intuitive, the paradox of the truth always being both counter-intuitive and intuitive, it being the Knowing faculty of the mind, so on and so forth, and yes I can construct proper sentences but don't expect me to do so, it is a habit to just use commas.
 
New Age United

New Age United

Well-Known Member
eye exaggerate said:
IMO, there are two modes of intelligence. One is paternal, and creates order, etc. The other is maternal, and seeks to relate to the order.

Both of them, in balanced proportion, is what is meant by 'self'. Logic (outward, seeking information) intuition (inward, seeking understanding).

Science is too heady for most people, and understanding is...

Fuck, watch the news.
Click to expand...
I like the insight of logic being outward seeking information and intuition being inward seeking understanding, it is indeed a balance between the rational and the intuitive that leads to the understanding and knowing of truth.
 
G

ghostdriver

Well-Known Member
LOL GOD is coming this is what HE told me in a dream I saw nothing but blackness and heard
Revelation KJV 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Then woke up! HAHAHAHA GLory to GOD who truly is alive, now and forever! Who reigns omnipotent!!!!! JESUS CHRIST!!! YES!!! HE is LORD!!! HE is my master for HE is worthy!
 
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