How much airflow you need for CO2

jijiandfarmgang

Well-Known Member
I've been saying this for a while, but for some reason instead of intelligent debate people many people just say I'm flat out wrong.

Everyone keeps spouting "I heard you need airflow 1-5 times per minute to keep CO2 levels high." Or "you need plenty of air exchange for CO2", or "plants need fresh air" etc.

In my experience this just isn't true. Let me get one thing straight. I'm talking about "NEED" not "IDEAL".

In general (In the typical indoor growing world) its more important to focus on environmental temps, and humidity. If you need to exchange air in your room say every 2 times a minute to keep temps down, then you should do it. But if your intaking very cold air all the time and using heaters, because you think the plants need fresh air, your doing yourself a disservice.

A couple years ago (I can't remember the numbers) I tested a 3k indoor grow room with a CO2 monitor. It was in a home that was drafty (3/4 inch gap underneath door, no vapor barrier or tyvek, probably not much insulation). This room was sealed with no CO2 gen. At all times, this room had a decent amount higher CO2 content than outdoors.

Recently wanting to prove a point I wanted to do an more thorough job and datalog an outbuilding grow. I'm running into a few issues datalogging but here are the inital results.

4k grow room built in a barn. Drywall, and fiberglass insulation. No caulking, No vapour barrier (this may or may not be important). The room is sealed in winter. Entering the room once per day for tending, watering. High of above 2000 ppm while in the room (this number is unimportant as I was near the meter, while it was initializing). Now 24 hours later I entered the room and checked the meter 441 ppm CO2. When I checked memory for the minimum recorded CO2 it was 423 ppm CO2.


- Jiji
 

dluck

Well-Known Member
I guess why im confused is most ppl use bottled CO2 in indoor grow rooms or if they don't then just a sufficient air exchange for temp purposes .
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
I've been saying this for a while, but for some reason instead of intelligent debate people many people just say I'm flat out wrong.

Everyone keeps spouting "I heard you need airflow 1-5 times per minute to keep CO2 levels high." Or "you need plenty of air exchange for CO2", or "plants need fresh air" etc.

In my experience this just isn't true. Let me get one thing straight. I'm talking about "NEED" not "IDEAL".

In general (In the typical indoor growing world) its more important to focus on environmental temps, and humidity. If you need to exchange air in your room say every 2 times a minute to keep temps down, then you should do it. But if your intaking very cold air all the time and using heaters, because you think the plants need fresh air, your doing yourself a disservice.

A couple years ago (I can't remember the numbers) I tested a 3k indoor grow room with a CO2 monitor. It was in a home that was drafty (3/4 inch gap underneath door, no vapor barrier or tyvek, probably not much insulation). This room was sealed with no CO2 gen. At all times, this room had a decent amount higher CO2 content than outdoors.

Recently wanting to prove a point I wanted to do an more thorough job and datalog an outbuilding grow. I'm running into a few issues datalogging but here are the inital results.

4k grow room built in a barn. Drywall, and fiberglass insulation. No caulking, No vapour barrier (this may or may not be important). The room is sealed in winter. Entering the room once per day for tending, watering. High of above 2000 ppm while in the room (this number is unimportant as I was near the meter, while it was initializing). Now 24 hours later I entered the room and checked the meter 441 ppm CO2. When I checked memory for the minimum recorded CO2 it was 423 ppm CO2.


- Jiji
Very nice!! ?. You give the starting ppm but suggest it was not noteworthy. Seems a reading directly after air replacement would be. I suppose you could assume the rate of decline, even. Although it might be interesting to check other intervals. Oh and...What is the light?

Regardless, this is great stuff! @dluck I HAVE a room without a co2 tank that relies on pulling outside air in to replenish co2. The air can be very cold, so I really would like to avoid doing it often. This tells me that my 9 replenishments I am doing can be reduced further.
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
I guess why im confused is most ppl use bottled CO2 in indoor grow rooms or if they don't then just a sufficient air exchange for temp purposes .
Because its cold outside. Its a balancing act of getting heat and fresh air. You dont want to over circulate because it would cost too much to heat and control the room temp.
 

reddan1981

Well-Known Member
Humidity levels, how does moisture affect c02 intake?......... do plants consume or release c02?.....(or both)
In a SEALED room where is c02 produced?
average atmospheric c02 level per open room = 350 ppm
 
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dluck

Well-Known Member
Humidity levels, how does moisture affect c02 intake?......... do plants consume or release c02?.....(or both)
In a SEALED room where is c02 produced?
average atmospheric c02 level per open room = 350 ppm
Don't know all that except plants consume and humans release.
 

dluck

Well-Known Member
Because its cold outside. Its a balancing act of getting heat and fresh air. You dont want to over circulate because it would cost too much to heat and control the room temp.
My air intake is pulled from inside house into the grow area..I don't draw air directly from outside...I'm guessing most my co2 comes from all the ppl and dogs that's in my house that exhale co2.
 

dluck

Well-Known Member
Very nice!! ?. You give the starting ppm but suggest it was not noteworthy. Seems a reading directly after air replacement would be. I suppose you could assume the rate of decline, even. Although it might be interesting to check other intervals. Oh and...What is the light?

Regardless, this is great stuff! @dluck I HAVE a room without a co2 tank that relies on pulling outside air in to replenish co2. The air can be very cold, so I really would like to avoid doing it often. This tells me that my 9 replenishments I am doing can be reduced further.
Ok I see what you are saying but cold air is detrimental to co2 intake that's why you cut fans to raise grow room temps when injecting co2 in a grow space...co2 intake is best at 90°
 

dluck

Well-Known Member
Well crap now that I'm not that medicated I understand your question(I think) a little better...here's my 2 cents (which isn't worth much) ! So I'm assuming you know how quick your fans exchange the air in your grow space..as said above outdoor co2 levels are around 350 ppm..with a grow room temp of say 76° your co2 intake by your plants is significantly lower or slower then say if your temps were around 90° so basically you'd need a sealed room to figure your rate of co2 depletion once you have that pinned down you can configure your rate of air exchange to keep the co2 levels at a semi constant level given that room temps don't exceed a level which will hurt the plants.
 

reddan1981

Well-Known Member
Ok I see what you are saying but cold air is detrimental to co2 intake that's why you cut fans to raise grow room temps when injecting co2 in a grow space...co2 intake is best at 90°
my questions was to the op to highlight obvious oversight.
Again your emphasis is on survivable c02 levels, with no air exchange,
 
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bravedave

Well-Known Member
Well crap now that I'm not that medicated I understand your question(I think) a little better...here's my 2 cents (which isn't worth much) ! So I'm assuming you know how quick your fans exchange the air in your grow space..as said above outdoor co2 levels are around 350 ppm..with a grow room temp of say 76° your co2 intake by your plants is significantly lower or slower then say if your temps were around 90° so basically you'd need a sealed room to figure your rate of co2 depletion once you have that pinned down you can configure your rate of air exchange to keep the co2 levels at a semi constant level given that room temps don't exceed a level which will hurt the plants.
Better, but still a little muddy...we are not talking about the plants ability to utilize co2 nor what temps are optimal for them to do so.
 

dluck

Well-Known Member
Better, but still a little muddy...we are not talking about the plants ability to utilize co2 nor what temps are optimal for them to do so.
Yes but without knowing the things I posted then you won't be able to know how much air flow that you will need
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
Yes but without knowing the things I posted then you won't be able to know how much air flow that you will need
Not sure about that, ;) but yes I know what it takes to replace my rooms air. "My" rooms co2 availability level will peak at the time of replacement while the rooms temp will be at its lowest as the air bringing in the co2 is cold. Directly after replacement my room almost immediately returns to its normal, pretty constant temps and starts using this new co2-filled air. What we want to know is how long before Co2 levels drop to a level below what the plants "need" and we need to replenish with new air again. The less I need to replenish with this cold air the better. So, we are mainly talking co2 availability, not use.
 

reddan1981

Well-Known Member
Not sure about that, ;) but yes I know what it takes to replace my rooms air. "My" rooms co2 availability level will peak at the time of replacement while the rooms temp will be at its lowest as the air bringing in the co2 is cold. Directly after replacement my room almost immediately returns to its normal, pretty constant temps and starts using this new co2-filled air. What we want to know is how long before Co2 levels drop to a level below what the plants "need" and we need to replenish with new air again. The less I need to replenish with this cold air the better. So, we are mainly talking co2 availability, not use.
ok my mate, have you got c02 meter, if so would you be able to control an experiment properly ? (An effective control )
 
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