The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Posted this over at the Riddle site, just to compare. And yes, it does have sulfur.

Just comparing...

Citrus FeED 20-10-20

Total Nitrogen (N) 20%
2% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
3% Nitrate Nitrogen
15% Urea Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 10%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 20%
Magnesium (Mg) 1%
1% water soluble magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S) 4.9%
Boron (B) 0.02%
Copper (Cu) 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe) 0.15%
0.15% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn) 0.075%
0.075% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn) 0.05%

Petunia with Mg
20-3-19

Total Nitrogen (N) 20%
8.04% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
11.96% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 3%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 19%
Magnesium (Mg) 1.34%
1.34% water soluble magnesium (Mg)
Boron (B) 0.02%
Copper (Cu) 0.01%
0.01% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe) 0.20%
0.20% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn) 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.01%
Zinc (Zn) 0.05%
 

Growerguy420

Active Member
Posted this over at the Riddle site, just to compare. And yes, it does have sulfur.

Just comparing...

Citrus FeED 20-10-20

Total Nitrogen (N) 20%
2% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
3% Nitrate Nitrogen
15% Urea Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 10%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 20%
Magnesium (Mg) 1%
1% water soluble magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S) 4.9%
Boron (B) 0.02%
Copper (Cu) 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe) 0.15%
0.15% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn) 0.075%
0.075% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn) 0.05%
Petunia with Mg 20-3-19

Total Nitrogen (N) 20%
8.04% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
11.96% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 3%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 19%
Magnesium (Mg) 1.34%
1.34% water soluble magnesium (Mg)
Boron (B) 0.02%
Copper (Cu) 0.01%
0.01% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe) 0.20%
0.20% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn) 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.01%
Zinc (Zn) 0.05%
Wonder if you will notice any differences between the Urea nitrogen and the nitrate nitrogen. I am eager to see your results...it certainly has a nice balanced chemical makeup
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Wonder if you will notice any differences between the Urea nitrogen and the nitrate nitrogen. I am eager to see your results...it certainly has a nice balanced chemical makeup
I think the urea will have more of an acidic affect albeit slight. Great ammonical to nitrate balance with both foods.

I think it comes down to value as they're both pretty much the same. I just wasn't willing to pay the high prices of the Citrus so I went looking for alternates after doing my research.
 

Growerguy420

Active Member
I think the urea will have more of an acidic affect albeit slight. Great ammonical to nitrate balance with both foods.

I think it comes down to value as they're both pretty much the same. I just wasn't willing to pay the high prices of the Citrus so I went looking for alternates after doing my research.
That makes sense, yes I don't know if you'll be able to really notice any difference, only time and grow experience will tell.
 

shannonball

Well-Known Member
agree about how complicated people make their grows, using tons of chemicals and spending hundreds of dollars. we use the best soil we can find, which is a mix of happy frog and ocean forest, a little bat guano tea, root organics sometimes along with some molasses. nothing complicated at all our plants stay green throughout the whole cycle. we're mainly doing auto's. 3 at a time, spring and fall.
its all we need for us two. usually one sativa, one indica and something fun or different.
 

Growerguy420

Active Member
agree about how complicated people make their grows, using tons of chemicals and spending hundreds of dollars. we use the best soil we can find, which is a mix of happy frog and ocean forest, a little bat guano tea, root organics sometimes along with some molasses. nothing complicated at all our plants stay green throughout the whole cycle. we're mainly doing auto's. 3 at a time, spring and fall.
its all we need for us two. usually one sativa, one indica and something fun or different.
That's much to complicated for me. I run straight promix with jacks citrus feed every watering $9.99 for a 1.5lb tub through the whole cycle
 

shannonball

Well-Known Member
to each their own.as long as your happy with what u do, then stay with that.
we make 5 gallons of guano tea and use as needed, molasses in flowering every other water. root organics is for root development.

we try to stay 100% organic.

no flushing, no chemicals....sweet smoke.

peace
 

Growerguy420

Active Member
Exactly! Whatever works for you. Well spoken. I also don't flush, I use only jacks citrus feed, don't know if that's organic or not but the bud looks smells and tastes amazing every time.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
to each their own.as long as your happy with what u do, then stay with that.
we make 5 gallons of guano tea and use as needed, molasses in flowering every other water. root organics is for root development.

we try to stay 100% organic.

no flushing, no chemicals....sweet smoke.

peace
Since when did "organics" contain no chemicals?
 

bravedave

Well-Known Member
The thread caught my eye as I just finished my first grow a month ago and the cookbook provided me utilized Fertilome 9-58-8 started with first watering of 12/12 through to final. I did see some results that could have been P overload but I pretty much pyshed through it to a good finish. Used their 20-20-20 product during veg and we were nothing but fast growing and green. So, Jacks might be the choice for round 2.
 

shannonball

Well-Known Member
when i say chemical, i'm talking man (woman) made fertilizers. for example, bat guano is not man made nor is alpaca poop. But since you asked, here's a comparison. I don't care what anyone uses, as long they are happy with their grow results. We prefer organic growing, Our choice.

Organic Fertilizers are materials derived from plant and animal parts or residues. Examples are Blood Meal, Compost, Bat Guano, Manure, Seaweed, and Worm Castings.

Synthetic Fertilizers are “Man made” inorganic compounds - usually derived from by-products of the petroleum industry. Examples are Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Superphosphate, and Potassium Sulfate.

Plants require 13 nutrients. There are three primary macronutrients; nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), and potassium (K). These nutrients are used in significant amounts by growing plants, so they must be replaced periodically to sustain productivity.

The secondary nutrients are; calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), and sulfur (S). There are usually enough of these nutrients in the soil, so additional fertilization is not always needed. The micronutrients used in small quantities are; boron (B), copper (Cu), iron (Fe), chloride (Cl), manganese (Mn), molybdenum (Mo) and zinc (Zn).

Plants cannot distinguish between an organic or synthetic fertilizer – the nutrients are processed in exactly the same way. However, the similarity stops there.

Chemical fertilizers add nutrients to the soil, but they don’t add anything else. Plants needs more than just nutrients to survive. They also need organic matter and living organisms.

Synthetic fertilizers do not support microbiological life in the soil. The application of a synthetic fertilizer actually kills a significant percentage of beneficial microorganisms. These tiny creatures are responsible for breaking down organic matter into a stable amendment for improving soil quality and fertility. Some convert nitrogen from the air into a plant useable form.

Compost and organic material introduce beneficial microorganisms into the soil’s complex mix. Microorganisms commonly found in soil and compost convert organic nitrogen into inorganic nitrogen, a process called mineralization. Plants may then take up the nutrients released by this process. Composts contain an astonishing variety of microbes, many of which may be beneficial in controlling pathogens.

Organic matter improves soil structure, resulting in a crumb-like structure that improves water retention, air infiltration and enhances soil fertility. Microorganisms can also break down contaminants in the soil and water to components that pose less of an environmental hazard.



Organic amendments(which include more than nutrients) can be highly variable in composition. They are also a dilute source of nutrients compared to inorganic fertilizers, so the nutritive shock to the growing system isn't as noticeable. Because of this diluted feature, organic materials might be more expensive than petroleum-based synthetic fertilizers and might be difficult to justify economically for large-scale production.

And if you don't like to get your hands dirty, you might shy away from the earthy qualities of organic soil amendments that mimic nature's own highly variable results based on microbiological activity and soil temperature.

Synthetic fertilizers usually do not contain micronutrients and they do not support microbiological life in the soil. Because of their high concentration, they can easily be over-applied and can "burn" plant roots, or create toxic level of salts. When synthetic fertilizers release nutrients too quickly, they can create a great deal of top growth before the roots are able to balance the growth underground. This top-heavy growth often leads to weaker and disease prone plants, with less fruiting.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I use both organics like manure and compost and synthetics. Best of both worlds.

I have raised from start to finish outdoor grown cannabis with a 12 month release Polyon, 18-4-9 (similar to Osmocote). Just got in JR Peters Petunia FeED, 20-3-19, with added Mg and think I'm really gonna like it. Cheap, complete and comes in tiny prills form. Easier to measure and store. Dye is black not blue.

UB
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Organic Fertilizers are materials derived from plant and animal parts or residues. Examples are Blood Meal, Compost, Bat Guano, Manure, Seaweed, and Worm Castings.

Synthetic Fertilizers are “Man made” inorganic compounds - usually derived from by-products of the petroleum industry.
You say you don't care what anyone else says, while clearly you do as you didn't make the above up yourself. Not going to debunk every piece of false info you posted in there, but really read this: http://depletedcranium.com/once-again-fertilizer-is-not-petroleum-based/

I will take my quality (foodgrade) clean synthetics over your bat guano and slaughterhouse waste any day, and so do my plants :)
 

Milovan

Well-Known Member
I wrote this years ago and thought I'd share it here.

The never ending abuse of Phosphorous to enhance flowering

A common mistake for growers when they reach the flowering stage is to start hitting the plants with a high P fert like a 10-50-10, continuing to use this blend exclusively, and when their plants start experiencing a deficit of N, Ca, Mg or micros as reflected by the dropping of lower leaves and chlorosis, they wonder why.
Uncle Ben
What if you use a high P fert and get no deficits?
 

shannonball

Well-Known Member
first off i never said i don't care what "anyone says" and you're correct i pulled that from the internet so what. At least the information is valid.

I never said ALL chemical based ferts are petroleum based. it said "usually derived from by-products of the petroleum industry." that's not all inclusive and "usually" is operative word in that sentecne.

What slaughterhouse waster are you taking about? Alpaca's are raised for their wool not meat.

I'll take this person's information over some site call the Depleted Cranium. At least the guy appears to be intelligent enough to have Ph,D.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/yard-garden/lawns/characteristics-of-natural-and-manufactured-fertilizers/
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Oh you said "uses"... well you got me there.

What slaughterhouse waster are you taking about?
You're joking right? Read carefully again what you copied and pasted.... Also, Bat guano and the ideals of growing organic don't fit together either.

I'll take this person's information over some site call the Depleted Cranium.
If the info and the domains were swapped you'd be taking the other guy's words... it's called confirmation bias. The doc you posted makes one ridiculous statement about petroleum, "The manufactured fertilizers normally are made from petroleum and natural gas". It's that typical nonsense that sparked the other article with the fitting title... "once again"... It is simply a false statement when it comes to the high grade quality nutes many of us use. It requires petroleum to make it, it's not based on petroleum. How much petroleum do you think is wasted on having all those bags shipped to your house and that bat cave destroyed...
 
Top