which zyme's do i buy tommorow? help!!

rory420420

Well-Known Member
not for the o.p.,but for informational purposes...stress-zyme.
its cheap,at every pet/aquatic store,and doesnt come with a hefty pricetag because of the industry its used in..same as any hygrozyme,pondzyme(about the same stuff),ect..
try it,it works..
i have a chiller also..my res stays clear.
 

stonestare

Active Member
Chilling your tank and using bennies to prevent slime is something that was invented on RIU only recently. (in the last few years)


I've been doing DWC since before the "bubbleheads movement", which brought a lot of popularity to different types of DWC. I refuse to bother with those new age hail marry techniques.

Roots don't rot because of infection, they become infected because they rot. The way to keep them from rotting is to pump enough air into your water, and use the correct nutrient mix. If the roots are infected, it's most likely because they're already unhealthy. Even using hydrogen peroxide or bleach to sterlize will not make the roots healthy again. Only fixing the root problem (pun intended) can fix the roots.

DO NOT put peroxide or bleach on your plants HUGE MAJOR DO NOT DO.This is how to kill your plants, bleach is toxic to your plants and you aswell.


Pythium is a genus of parasitic oomycotes. Most species are plant parasites, but Pythium insidiosum is an important pathogen of animals. They were formerly classified as fungi; the feet of the fungus gnat are frequently a vector for their transmission.

However, in hydroponic systems inside greenhouses, where extensive monocultures of plants are maintained in plant nutrient solution (containing nitrogen, potassium, phosphate, and micronutrients) that is continuously recirculated to the crop, Pythium spp. cause extensive and devastating root rot and is often difficult to prevent or control.[2][5][6][7] The root rot affects entire operations (tens of thousands of plants, in many instances) within two to four days due to the inherent nature of hydroponic systems where roots are nakedly exposed to the water medium, in which the zoospores can move freely
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythium


To the Op

This is what I use and HIGLY recomend it. It has bacteria that specifically attack pythium and will prevent root slime, or root rot. Pythium is very very common in well water, and also some city water.
http://www.amazon.com/Plant-Revolution-Premium-Liquid-Mycorrhizae/dp/B006ZSEHBY

Watch your temps to see if need a chiller or not. Air yes get the biggest air pump you can get.

The ORCA when you use it you need to watch your PH with it. The reason is ORCA has Nitrogen and Phousphate fixing bacteria in it. They make those elaments, the bacteria. IF you notice your plants looking like you added to much nute, when you did not it is from these bacteria over populated in your system. The way you know this is the PH will swing up and down faster than you have had before. Just reduce the nute like 20% on your feed schedule and see what the plants want. By using this product your weed will have alot more flavor to it because of the bacteria.

1 other thing about benis and hydro, you do not want to use a beni product that has thrichadermia in its contents. The orca is specific made for hydro and has no trich in it.

If need a zyme use CANNA zyme , it is what Heavy 16 recommends to use. I do use Heavy 16 and canna zyme and have no complaints.I use Heavy 16 PRIME also wich is formulated for using benis, has aminos acids, carbs, vitamins, fulvic and humeric acid ect in it, and it is worth every penny.It does make a differance.

The deal about using benis is called a "Live res". What alot do not do, wich you do need to do is give the benis a place to live. They are not meant to swim around in water, they need something to hold onto. The best way to give them a place to live is in your net pots. Put your plant in your net pot like you always do, fill the top half the of net pot with washed clean lava rock. Then bring a 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch BLACK hose from your water supply line from the res and allow it to dump into the net pot.


Just need a hose barb fitting with pipe thread for what ever size hose you use, get them at loes for instance. Just drill the hole in the water supply pipe for the pipe tap needed, tap the hole to the pipe thread on the hose barb fitting, wrap the hose barb fitting threads 3 times with teflon tape and install in the pipe. DONT try to make it ubber tight or will strip out the PVC and have to replace the pipe. When it feels tight stop then have someone at the pump turn it on for 3 or 4 seconds and see if it leaks, if it does tighten the fitting just a tad more and repeat until it doesnt leak. If you hear a squek stop you are on the verge of being to tight.

When done with the grow place that lava rock outside and use fresh washed lava rock in next grow. After couple weeks when the lava rock used has thourghly dryed out, place in a 1 cup of bleach to 5 gallon of water mix and let it sit for couple days. Then dump and rinse the lava rock , let the rock sit in clean water that change every couple days. takes a week then let it dry out again and it is ready to use.

Do a search for BIO BUCKETS, it will explain this in further detail. Here is a pic of a DWC bucket set with lava rock, the supply hose to the lava rock is not in this pic, but it is used can see the rock is wet.

lava buckets.jpg
 
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waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Chilling your tank and using bennies to prevent slime is something that was invented on RIU only recently. (in the last few years)

I've been doing DWC since before the "bubbleheads movement", which brought a lot of popularity to different types of DWC. I refuse to bother with those new age hail marry techniques.

Roots don't rot because of infection, they become infected because they rot. The way to keep them from rotting is to pump enough air into your water, and use the correct nutrient mix. If the roots are infected, it's most likely because they're already unhealthy. Even using hydrogen peroxide or bleach to sterlize will not make the roots healthy again. Only fixing the root problem (pun intended) can fix the roots.
Using a chiller and beneficials for res was invented on RUI? Really, wow! So your saying that there is no benefit in using these things to keep res healthy? I am trying to decide what I should be using if anything to provide a happy root zone. Never had issues until last spring when temps got up to high 70's then roots turned slightly off colour. I added clear res and things improved even as res temps stayed high. Other than what I did could you provide other solutions that would have helped? How do you fix the root problem? Oh and I did use H2O2 and didnt seem to really help but did not kill the plants, didnt do anything actually.
 

Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
1 other thing about benis and hydro, you do not want to use a beni product that has thrichadermia in its contents. The orca is specific made for hydro and has no trich in it.
why do you say that? I have always read they are important bennies.... used in great white, and always see it recommended when bubbling tea.

I have heard of using koi mats or lava rock as housing, but most people just keep dosing the res with new bennies, and they should be able to grab onto the root ball once it is big enough.

something I have found with lava rock and large net pots is it takes forever for the roots to get into the dwc, and it also displaces a lot of water. I prefer smaller net pots so the roots hit the res immediately, and the extra water is more stable.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Are you asking rhetorical questions?

Using a chiller and beneficials for res was invented on RUI? Really, wow! So your saying that there is no benefit in using these things to keep res healthy? I am trying to decide what I should be using if anything to provide a happy root zone. Never had issues until last spring when temps got up to high 70's then roots turned slightly off colour. I added clear res and things improved even as res temps stayed high. Other than what I did could you provide other solutions that would have helped? How do you fix the root problem? Oh and I did use H2O2 and didnt seem to really help but did not kill the plants, didnt do anything actually.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Are you asking rhetorical questions?
No not at all. Just really want to know what you would suggest if problems arise. And how to keep issues from happening in the first place. Again I've only had one bad experience but feel it was the high temps that did it. As for proper amounts of DO I never run stones or an airpump, never felt it was needed, i floom. I did find that PH seemed to fluctuate more when I did run airstones at the beginning. Also I'm to much of a newb to question anyones ideals lol. As for bene's and chillers being use by an RUI member first I find that amazing.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Dude, you're not a noob... lol. You know what you're doing. You've been telling me you're a noob for like 2 years now!! lol

I could try to come up with some detailed reasoning, or I could just say I've never bothered with bennies or chillers before. I just put bubbles through the water and keep the pH and ppm right and the roots do well. When the roots have issues, the problem is generally systemic. It's the KISS principle. I figure if I'm pumping enough air into the reservoir, then it's also equalizing temperature with the room.

The whole point I've been trying to make is it's not infection that leads to poor root health, it's poor root health that encourage infection.

I mean if you bury a corpse and put pondzyme in it, will you fix the flesh rot problem? Will bleach or chillers work better? I guess if you freeze the corpse, it will last a very long time, but if it was a living animal, it wouldn't need special treatments if the corpse was alive instead of rotting.

Sure, you might get a skin infection that you ultimately decide to treat with topical antibiotics, but would you to conclude that the way to prevent rashes is to coat your skin in bleach or yogurt at all times? What if someone told you the way to prevent skin infection is good diet and hygiene?

No not at all. Just really want to know what you would suggest if problems arise. And how to keep issues from happening in the first place. Again I've only had one bad experience but feel it was the high temps that did it. As for proper amounts of DO I never run stones or an airpump, never felt it was needed, i floom. I did find that PH seemed to fluctuate more when I did run airstones at the beginning. Also I'm to much of a newb to question anyones ideals lol. As for bene's and chillers being use by an RUI member first I find that amazing.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
LOL Seriously I am a newb! Especially when it comes to dialing it in. Sure I can grow it but to consistently get great results, far from it!!! And the reason I always say I'm a newb is to make sure that what I say here is in no way a recommendation just what I have done. As far as tweaking it thats why I ask people to clarify what they recommend. As for bene's, people that use them say they work and a few have said they totally fucked up their grow. Just wanted some advice as to what you've been doing, which is basically what I've been doing lol except for the hydrogen peroxide, which if you asked me last fall, I would have said was the greatest thing ever cause I had no root issues, but perhaps I was just very lucky.
 

LurchLurkin

Active Member
Forget DWC..I think it's too much of a hassle to worry about the roots sitting in water and if you don't provide enough air (of which the max saturation of water is like 2% no matter how many bubbles you add) your roots will die and potentially rot and cause problems and then you're fighting the bacteria left and right potentially as you're trying to use beneficials in a bucket of water full of food where they may or may not get out of hand.

Try this:

Get some 5 gallon planters

mix up 100g/L of copper hydroxide/carbonate (available on ebay for like $5-$10 in almost pure form) with a quart(.946L) of food safe paint.

Ok,on a side note, there's only like one food safe contact paint in the U.S. and I have no idea where to find it but Europe has approved some and you're just looking for the food safe paint that bee keepers use it will be an acrylic if I remember correctly and it cures in a week.

If your planter doesn't already have 6 holes make 6 1/2" holes in the bottom. Wipe it with alcohol or wash with dish soapy water to clean off any "mold release" agent that may still be there. Scratch the inside and outside with scotch a rough scotch bright pad...you will see scratches. Now clean it again with alcohol or wash.

Paint the inside of the planter and the bottom third of the outside. Wait a week.

run 3 lengths of 5/8" double braided nylon through 6 different holes in the bottom (1 rope through 1 hole) and leave at least 6" of slack on either end. You're going to cut the rope..you can lash it with sewing thread (a pain) or burn the ends, your choice but do one or the other or it will unravel.

Fill with 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 perlite, 1/3 coco all mixed up nicely

You can get beneficial bacteria from both worm castings and alfalfa meal. Spread those lightly onto the top. The alfalfa meal will also give you Triacontanol which is the active ingredient in Humboldt County's ice storm.

Put this into some sort of light proof reservoir and elevate it above the level of the water but so that the ropes hang into the water. Your first watering you will water from the top. 2L of nutes light nutrient solution is great.

After that just periodically check the pH and PPM/EC of the reservoir and change as you would normally. If the plants start sucking up water like crazy you MAY or may not need to water from the top as they get larger depending on..age, size, humidity, temperature, etc.

The inside paint will chemically prune the roots and is identical to spinout which was approved by the FDA for food consumption and I believe now owned by the company microkote. This will allow your plants to grow very large without worrying about getting root bound and if they do eventually outgrow the container (long time...) you can easily transplant them. The paint/ropes/lack of space/outside paint will keep your roots from growing into the res so you don't need to worry about oxygenating it.

The soil-less mix will hold plenty of oxygen and be very beneficial for your plants.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
I don't recall OP saying they were using DWC but I agree that it has many pitfalls if not done properly. I for one didnt have much luck lol.
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Dude, you're not a noob... lol. You know what you're doing. You've been telling me you're a noob for like 2 years now!! lol

I could try to come up with some detailed reasoning, or I could just say I've never bothered with bennies or chillers before. I just put bubbles through the water and keep the pH and ppm right and the roots do well. When the roots have issues, the problem is generally systemic. It's the KISS principle. I figure if I'm pumping enough air into the reservoir, then it's also equalizing temperature with the room.

The whole point I've been trying to make is it's not infection that leads to poor root health, it's poor root health that encourage infection.

I mean if you bury a corpse and put pondzyme in it, will you fix the flesh rot problem? Will bleach or chillers work better? I guess if you freeze the corpse, it will last a very long time, but if it was a living animal, it wouldn't need special treatments if the corpse was alive instead of rotting.

Sure, you might get a skin infection that you ultimately decide to treat with topical antibiotics, but would you to conclude that the way to prevent rashes is to coat your skin in bleach or yogurt at all times? What if someone told you the way to prevent skin infection is good diet and hygiene?
So I've done a bit of reading, something I really dont do enough of lol. This is a short take on (only one) of the articles. It seems pythium is every where it can be brought in from outside in your shoe, it is in well water, and even on the foot of a fly. It does live in cold water, it is kept at bay with a healthy root zone, its there but unable to really do much. Most growers are unaware that the stuff is in the res until something changes re: a rise in temps and lower DO. As for benies, they are a good way to keep them at bay as well but so is proactive methods. So......everyone is right lol. The ideal of bennies is not to turn your res into a nursery for them but to add them, let them do their work and they die. As for DO, the most efficient way to add it is not air stones and bubbles, it is by water fall effect or using your pump to break the surface using a bypass on the outlet pipe (i do this :) ) So again yes if you've never had an issue keep doing what your doing, your lucky! If you do have issues be it enviromental (well and city water, fly's with dirty feet, etc.) or lack of cleanliness (dirty room, etc.) then bennies are a great addition to the res. Hope this is helpful for those that hate to read large studies....me lol. Keep in mind that this was one article of a thousand and I guess to seek the truth you have to read lol. As for the analogy using a dead body, well not really the same at all. Now if there were dead bodies lying all over the ground and if you touched one and died, well then, yup you would be slathering your body in antibodies lol. Just lucky you have no dead bodies lying around!!
 

hbbum

Well-Known Member
not for the o.p.,but for informational purposes...stress-zyme.
its cheap,at every pet/aquatic store,and doesnt come with a hefty pricetag because of the industry its used in..same as any hygrozyme,pondzyme(about the same stuff),ect..
try it,it works..
i have a chiller also..my res stays clear.

Rory, how much of that Stress-Zyme do you add per gallon?
 

rory420420

Well-Known Member
Rory, how much of that Stress-Zyme do you add per gallon?
i follow the directions on the bottle,my first use i added extra,like it says on directions..i dose every new res on mondays when i change,and on thurs,give a 5ml per 20gal booster...
 

stonestare

Active Member
why do you say that? I have always read they are important bennies.... used in great white, and always see it recommended when bubbling tea.
.
You want to use ORCA. Trich will strangle the mycos out. Trich is a coil that attaches and uses a host to gain the nutriant the trich needs for food. Trich will attach onto the mycos and use them as a host for a food source. In hydro if your not using a method to allow benis to have a place to attach and grow this becomes a issue. Put some lava rock that has been washed in your net pots, let the water flow over the lava rock. This will give benis a nice home to multiply. Look up BIO BUCKETS. All you need to do is have the top half of the net pot with lava rock.

I use rockwool 2 inch cubes once I see nubs starting on my clones they go in a 2 inch cube. Then when I put in the net pot I use hydraton on bottom half of the net pot, lava rock on the top half. If I had the ability to ues a waterfall on the return to the res I would just have the lava rock where the waterfall goes into the res to keep the rock wet. The beni's need it to be wet but they also need oxygen, pure water does not give them oxygen like they need, they need something to keep them wet and get atmosphere air.

I am not sure what the bacteria are in great white I have not looked them up. I know ORCA and it has 6 bacteria that are specific to kill pythium and rossarium.They are made by the same company so its not a manufacturer change, rather a product.

orca for hydro, great white for soil or coir.
http://www.plant-success.com/index.php/mycorrhizal-products/orca.html
 
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stonestare

Active Member
Pythium is also found in most water wells and some city water. Pythium is very common in water sources. Yes it can come from a gnat species wich attches to thier legs, shoes, ect. It can be spread very easy and not known. This is why you need to shower before you tend to your plants keep you cats and dogs out of that room. Animals are a huge cause of spider mites, various fungas, russel mites ect. keep you animals out of the grow.



The benifits of using benis far out weighs the use of using other things. Your weed will have alot ore flavor, you will have a healthier plant. You may pick up a bit of yeild per plant.




 

jarvild

Well-Known Member
Benni's are not needed with synthetic nute's. Enzyme's maybe. And myself have had no luck trying to do a organic DWC
 

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Benni's are not needed with synthetic nute's. Enzyme's maybe. And myself have had no luck trying to do a organic DWC
Can you explain why they are not needed? I'm trying to get my head around all of this. If not needed, is there something else you would recommend for keeping pythium at bay?
 
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