More Money Than Brains - a water cooled cab build

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
I think the first plant, Alice, is ready. I'm going with hurricane style alphabetical chick names.

65 days of 12/12 under 4kK Vero '29s She is still throwing pistils but the trichomes on the calyxes are starting to oxidize. I'm just making an educated guess on ripeness, feel free to chime in if your experience tells you otherwise. I'm going more for cerebral high than put-me-to-sleep stone. I hear TGA doesn't call it "Time Wreck" for nothing.

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also, Daphne is at day 17

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thanks for watching!
 

MrFlux

Well-Known Member
She is looking tasty, can go perhaps a few days more. But man you're plants are so small! I think the perlite is holding you back big time by constricting root growth. Just check the roots. They can't go deep and there is probably little lateral root growth.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone!

The one I just harvested was flipped as soon as it rooted and the other two have one and two weeks of veg respectively. The big scrogged one was cut at the same time as all the others and has ten weeks of vegging. There is another scrogged plant that was cut at the same time that is still vegging. It has three more weeks of veg and it still hasn't filled the screen. In other words, I took my two best of five cuts and started scrogging them while I flipped the extra cuts and experimented with 0, 1, and 2 weeks of veg.

I think a few things have contributed to slow growth.

1. it's a slow growing cut. I popped five beans and this one was the runt, but also the only female.
2. I had some ph problems when I switched veg feeds (too acidic,) I had been under and over feeding at various times, and a couple of times during this cycle the plants got dried out on vacation which lead to a lot of yellowing (N lockout or just plant consuming itself to stay alive?)
3. I've been purposely trying to keep the plants small through spectrum (4kK Vero), pot size, and training (scrog) because I don't have a lot of vertical height. "dialing in" my setup includes figuring how to make the plants the optimum size. Of course, now I know it's better to have big plants you can tie down than small plants that you can't "tie up."

It's not like I'm suffering without any Cannabis while I figure this stuff out...

I'm confused on pot size stuff. On the one hand, I have read that roots release hormones when they hit the sides of the pot that causes the plant to slow growth. On the other hand, in hydro people grow huge plants in little rockwool cubes. Maybe the constant flush of nutrient washes away the hormones? I don't know but before posting yesterday I did purchase some half gallon containers for four critical widow females I need to select from. They are twice as big as those food containers I'm using right now but I can still fit four of them in the veg chamber at the same time as one of the scrogs.

Also, I found that it's important to make sure the pots are packed and filled all the way to the brim, and topped off after they settle, because the roots will take over everything but the top half inch that gets dried out. The medium is a solid mass held together by the root ball except for a bit of loose perlite on the top. Also, my medium is 20% fine vermiculite by volume.

Also, heat issues are gone, turned the fan back down to low. Flowering stays mid to low 80's now. The whole cab with exhaust and cooling is much, much more quiet than the file server in the closet (which has six hard drives.) Just filling the flowering chamber with plants did the trick as Mr. Flux said it would. All that light bouncing around becomes heat if it doesn't hit a leaf.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
I'm back! I couldn't even read the site due to constant captchas from CloudFlare but @FranJan mentioned a way to keep them from showing up by using this one weird trick. CloudFlare sucks and RIU should use antispam that is aware of users logged in status.

Anyway, not too much to report except that I suck at growing Cannabis but I am improving! All my plants started turning a sickly pale green then yellowing with big brown spots. Turned out to be a Mg deficiency which I solved with epsom salt. Of course I used way too much! I found some random post that said to use a tbsp per gallon so I used about that much. They did start looking much better right away until they started looking burned. I fired up HydroBuddy, found my local water report, and entered the stats for the water and fertilizer I'm using (DG FoliagePro 9-3-6). I need less than a quarter teaspoon of epsom salt per gallon of water to bring Mg up to about 50 ppm, a tablespoon per gallon is like ten times too much for hydro no matter what water/ferts you're using. Should have done it right the first time instead of relying on random stoners on the internet.

I'll post some pictures pretty soon when things look better. There is Critical Widow and TimeWreck in flower but the CWs don't look too happy. I'm revegging a couple of TGA Querkles that stalled due to Mg def and possible problems from using poorly rinsed lava rock in the hempy reservoir. I'm cloning two Unknwn Prpht Gorilla Glue #4 S1s I popped last month and four DJS Vanillunas that remain unsexed.

I can pop some more seeds once I cull any male Vanillunas and CriticalWidows that don't make the cut. I'm thinking I'm going to pop 3 each of MNS Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze. SSH is one of my all-time faves and MH is supposed to be right up there. I need to get those going since they take a while. I also have some MNS Neville's Skunk and a ten pack of TGA Plushberry I'm excited to pop. No more seeds 'til next year when I make a run at one of the cups.

I think I need to stop the germ > sex > cut > veg > flower thing and go germ > veg > flower then just reveg any keepers before cutting and saving a mother. I think that would speed up my seed turnaround time considerably and let me go through more seeds. It would take longer before I could run a keeper again but most seeds aren't keepers so it makes sense to optimize for the general case. I could get clones but I'm scared of getting mites/aphids!

Thanks for listening!
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
I let Daphne, a TGA Timewreck, go 75 days. I did lose a couple of buds due to rot. She yielded 80g of decent stuff. I know once I get my feeding dialed in the Timewreck will be dank. I should see if I can get another pack of Timewreck and see if I can get some more phenos. I think Timewreck is one of the strains to be discontinued because it's one of Dioxide's.

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Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
Water cooling is working out well. Removing heat from the cab and closet keeps it from building up without leaving it open. The heat coming out of the radiator definitely heats up the room a bit. The ultra low profile fixtures certainly help with the vertical space in the bottom compartments. The whole system, including ventilation, is very quiet and stealthy. I'd either be having heat problems or I'd have to run my ventilation fan at a higher/louder level if all of the heat was being released inside the cab. My heat problems early on were from having an empty cab. The COBs do put out heat from the front, you can definitely feel it when you put your hands a few inches underneath them. So if there is no water evaporating / plants breathing inside then the temp goes up.

I'd like to put a couple more '18s in the veg chamber but I don't think I should put any more pressure on the pump without getting a bigger one. I also think I'll need another radiator if I add any more wattage to the system, which would also reduce flow some more. When designing a water cooled system, definitely go for long, high flow, water "bars" that let you put several COBs spread out in a row without adding a lot of pressure (like in the post on the previous page) instead of using a lot of individual blocks like I have. Those little blocks have at least two 90-degree bends in them which reduce flow.

Realistically though, I've harvested enough even with massive n00b abuse of short plants that I think the cab is capable of meeting my needs as it is without any further investment. I think the only thing I should do is install another fan on my radiator in push-pull config on a separate power supply. The redundancy should provide some protection for the COBs and drop the water temp a little bit.

I'm getting a fancy infrared thermometer for Christmyths so I'll update everyone on thermals in a few weeks.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
Here's a pic of my whole cab. Still working on getting plant heights optimal but I think these half gallon pots are good. I can cram nine of them into the veg chamber... The harem on the lower left is full for now: 1 TGA Timewreck, 4 MNS Critical Widows, 4 DJS Vanillunas (unsexed), 1 TGA Querkle, 2 UPA Gorilla Glue #4 S1s, and 2 each of MNS Mango Haze and Super Silver Haze that are germinating. I'm guessing those last two won't end up being too short. Another one of the CWs vegging in the middle of the lower right, plus Querkle, and a bunch of cuts. The flowering box has all Critical Widows plus one Timewreck in the back. The ones in front/right have recovered from bad Mg deficiency but lost most of their fan leaves. (edit: they are around week 6-7) The CW on the left was flipped two weeks ago and seems to be a good height, maybe I could go a bit higher.

So far the only downside of water cooling has been the price but I'll pass the break even point on the hardware in under a year from first light even though my production has been very poor relative to what the cab is capable of. By this time next year it won't matter at all. What matters is that I have a sweet cab that fits in my space and is quiet and I seem to have that! I still want to upgrade the circulation fans to some bigger Noctuas.


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AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
I'm getting a fancy infrared thermometer for Christmyths so I'll update everyone on thermals in a few weeks.

You mean like this one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NON-CONTACT-IR-LASER-TEMPERATURE-GUN-INFRARED-DIGITAL-THERMOMETER-SIGHT-HANDHELD-/130979214461?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7ef8347d ?

It's a very price-friendly tool. Has anyone tried out this model or a similar one?

I wonder if this tool would be better for our applications - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Thermometer-Temperature-meter-Test-2-K-Type-Thermocouple-Sensor-1300-C/131280386754?rt=nc ?
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
I went through six $10-$20 probe thermometers before admitting it was false economy and just buying a Thermapen for $100. It broke too but they fixed it for free and it reads much faster than the cheapos. So I'm leery of cheaping out again on an IR thermometer. Although I will use it in my cabinet, that's not the reason for purchase.
 

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
I went through six $10-$20 probe thermometers before admitting it was false economy and just buying a Thermapen for $100. It broke too but they fixed it for free and it reads much faster than the cheapos. So I'm leery of cheaping out again on an IR thermometer. Although I will use it in my cabinet, that's not the reason for purchase.
I'd like to think that the IR guns will last longer than the ones you bought as I can't see a reason for them to break unless they're for decoration... ;I'll probably buy one in the coming months for testing purposes.
 

Tazbud

Well-Known Member
I like this idea. Well done in seeing it through!
For cold climes the water could pass into a holding tank/heat release/thermostat solenoid before the radiator.
 

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
O&R's demonstration would be considered active cooling, correct? If so, isn't this like the highest form of cooling available?
 

nogod_

Well-Known Member
Just have to braze some copper tubing onto those heatsinks, get youself a condenser and compressor, some 134a and youre off to the races.

Wont vouch for the stealth when the compressor kicks on though...
:eyesmoke:

O&R's demonstration would be considered active cooling, correct? If so, isn't this like the highest form of cooling available?
Well there's still refrigeration to consider....
 
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