So you wanna be a trader huh?

bud nugbong said:

I missed out on facebook in the low 30s because I listened to some fools advice on here. Now its in the upper 70s. I could have sold half and made my money back. I learned then, to take others advice with a grain of salt.

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Completely agree thats why I stopped listening to Kramer he's very Hypocritical .....He did a whole segment on why gold was coming crashing down......Then the next week he's talking about Gold going on a run only after a fund came out and said they were buyers...and of course what has gold done? Absolutley nothing it's chilling in it's triangle

"listening to other people" is the reason to learn things for yourself: that way you'll know when someone's bullshitting you, or when they're just plan wrong, and to not listen to them.

lol speaking of Kramer, I was watching early the other morning. I hear him say "that's why like apple right now, they're cheap" and the other guy looks down and says "there at yearly highs" and cramer just says "well..i don't know" and nothing else. that fucking made me laugh.

reasonevangelist said:

"listening to other people" is the reason to learn things for yourself: that way you'll know when someone's bullshitting you, or when they're just plan wrong, and to not listen to them.

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They say you can learn from everybody What to do and what not to do.... IMO kramers just the street's P.R.....I have honestly made more money throwin puts out on the stocks he recommends the next day then I have by being long them....BWLD for example ya kno? Cup and Handle breakout you have to own this one now! Giant gap up off the open.. it closed it the next day only to continue to drop another 8-10%....Not sure what its doing now tho...hmmm

bud nugbong said:

lol speaking of Kramer, I was watching early the other morning. I hear him say "that's why like apple right now, they're cheap" and the other guy looks down and says "there at yearly highs" and cramer just says "well..i don't know" and nothing else. that fucking made me laugh.

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Ya I was fortunate to enough throw a few LEAP opt out there on apple in low 400's before the 7-1 split.....Dumped em in the 5's and reloaded when it smoked the 200 day it was a nice lick.....Ya if you multiplied whats its trading at now by 7 you would be @ 52 week high....If you divide all time high by 7 (Off the top of head) is 706ish, you get what it needs to be at for another ALL time high

WHODAT@THADOR said:

They say you can learn from everybody What to do and what not to do.... IMO kramers just the street's P.R.....I have honestly made more money throwin puts out on the stocks he recommends the next day then I have by being long them....BWLD for example ya kno? Cup and Handle breakout you have to own this one now! Giant gap up off the open.. it closed it the next day only to continue to drop another 8-10%....Not sure what its doing now tho...hmmm

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That's the only part i understood, but i agree: you can learn just as much from seeing what Not to do, as you can by learning the right ways to approach just about anything.

“Mistakes are, after all, the foundations of truth, and if a man does not know what a thing is, it is at least an increase in knowledge if he knows what it is not.” -C.G. Jung

I'm not a trader, but i've always been intrigued and mystified by the whole money moving game. I would love to "know what i'm doing," and actually succeed at it, but there's an overwhelming amount of information involved, good info, bad info, misinformation, disinformation, and i just can't seem to shut out everything else that requires my brain cycles, long enough to actually learn it.

Sure, the fundamental concept is simple enough, but i just don't know enough about the global economies, to think i'd be able to succeed at it. Plus, i always have a million other things whipping around in my perpetual brainstorm hurricanes. Maybe someday i'll get around to it. ^^

Long story short I was just saying Kramer is wall streets public relations. He plays into the whole crowd psychology model tells you what you want to hear.....and usually what people who follow stocks want to hear is what they don't understand so he tries to explain it, whether he is Right ,wrong, or Indifferent...The concept of fundamentals is simple enough as you said ...But, the problem lies in that all market's are DYNAMIC meaning they are constantly changing and to trade based off of fundamentals will leave you far behind "Investing" with fundamentals is a horse of a different color all together.

IMHO.....It's easier to shut off everything else and just learn technical's as they apply to both "Trading" and "Investing"..Technical's keep your Emotions out of it and allow your brain to process the Raw data as you see it. IME I have found it hard to short stocks when the guy on TV is there Hyping it up, and equally as hard to go long when the guy on tv is telling you everytime the markets down 10 bucks it's the end of the world. Pretty much all the stuff they say has no bearing on CNBC does. Vostak made a good point above about Bot's (Most volumes are traded by them) there really just autotraders with specific filters in them....Learn Fibonacci and Discipline and you control the bot.

WHODAT@THADOR said:

Long story short I was just saying Kramer is wall streets public relations. He plays into the whole crowd psychology model tells you what you want to hear.....and usually what people who follow stocks want to hear is what they don't understand so he tries to explain it, whether he is Right ,wrong, or Indifferent...The concept of fundamentals is simple enough as you said ...But, the problem lies in that all market's are DYNAMIC meaning they are constantly changing and to trade based off of fundamentals will leave you far behind "Investing" with fundamentals is a horse of a different color all together.

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Yeah, from what i've seen just from the minimal reading i've done, and just from critical thinking, in order to be successful as a "trader," you would need to understand how and why "everything affects everything," and in enough detail to know what to watch for, so that you can be prepared to make the right move in the right moment, in dynamic and ever fluctuating markets. How and why things change the way they change, is pretty important, and vastly more complex than "fundamentals." It's easy to say "buy lots of something that's going to become expensive, while it's cheap, and then sell it while the demand is still high, due to expectations that it will increase even more..." but to understand everything well enough to make accurate predictions on such things, is a whole other level. And then there's the other side of that, in which predictive capacity must be used to protect assets, in the event that an expected gain transforms into potentially rapid significant losses. Of course, you could also take the diversification approach, and try to make a higher number of smaller gains, reliably... but then you've exponentially increased the complexity and requirement of correctly interpreted and accurate information.

Honestly, it sounds like something i'd rather automate, but i'd need to fully understand all factors in play, in order to know how/where/when to set the "triggers." And all that is just way beyond my level of understanding, and i should predict that it could potentially take many years before i could reach a sufficient level of understanding, to justify any venture.

WHODAT@THADOR said:

IMHO.....It's easier to shut off everything else and just learn technical's as they apply to both "Trading" and "Investing"..Technical's keep your Emotions out of it and allow your brain to process the Raw data as you see it. IME I have found it hard to short stocks when the guy on TV is there Hyping it up, and equally as hard to go long when the guy on tv is telling you everytime the markets down 10 bucks it's the end of the world. Pretty much all the stuff they say has no bearing on CNBC does. Vostak made a good point above about Bot's (Most volumes are traded by them) there really just autotraders with specific filters in them....Learn Fibonacci and Discipline and you control the bot.

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Hah, you wrote that while i was writing about automating the process... before i read your comment.

reasonevangelist said:

Hah, you wrote that while i was writing about automating the process... before i read your comment.

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"Great mind's think alike"-Anon
LMAO.... I agree and Disagree lol To truly understand all the functions and correlations falls more into the Psychology of it all...it's a comfort thing ya kno? Think of it like this ...I can put gas in my car, I can drive my car, I can charge the battery and change the alternator and can explain the basic's of how it function.....But I could not overhaul the engine or transmission, explain the gear ratios or why it keeps vibrating when I drive to fast.....Point being I do not need to know most of this to drive a car. You do not need to now most of the fundamental's to trade the market, Fundamentals=Emotion(Pain/Pleasure)....Emotion is weakness in the market...Take the 10yr t Bond for example its been fluctuating between the same .30 Bps forever It went down and broke 2.5 Gold should have went up yet it didn't? High growth should have rallied yet it didn't along with the market because of weighting?The Fundamental was simple to me a bunch of institutions got caught on the wrong side of a trade thinking rates were going to rise...To cover that loss they had to take profit's in the market causing the decline... IMO Only institutions should be really worried about fundamental's because they have to justify where and why they are allocating your money to something for the FED'S. But what happens when there is a substantial decline? Most Money Manager's don't sell on your behalf, they don't actively manage your fund's they will let it ride to the bottom while the institution pocket's there money by selling there share's. Stop Losses are the most overlooked tool in this game and if people would learn to use them in every trade properly they wouldn't lose there savings.....JMO

re: your car/driving analogy... i see it like this:

Anyone can take a class, pass a test, get a license, and drive on public roadways... and without much knowledge of the function of their machine.

But the best drivers drive F1 race cars at 200mph. F1 race drivers have an exponentially greater and deeper understanding of both their machine, and how to utilize it. Even the worst F1 driver will own just about any regular license holder, when the stakes are high.

However, a fantastic automotive technician might know every detail about a vast array of different vehicles, across a wide spectrum, but could still lack the driving prowess of an F1 driver.

But what does it take to become a F1 race car driver right? Practice and consistency? The knowledge tend's to come on it's own as the driver desires to place higher right....."What do I have to do to go from 30th place to 25th and so on"....You can still make money while learning to be a trader or how to manage your own.... Simulated accounts are awesome ..no real money involved..it's like sitting in one of those car simulators no real crashing involved yet you can get your reactions down ... I find true knowledge of anything comes with experience

WHODAT@THADOR said:

But what does it take to become a F1 race car driver right? Practice and consistency? The knowledge tend's to come on it's own as the driver desires to place higher right....."What do I have to do to go from 30th place to 25th and so on"....You can still make money while learning to be a trader or how to manage your own.... Simulated accounts are awesome ..no real money involved..it's like sitting in one of those car simulators no real crashing involved yet you can get your reactions down ... I find true knowledge of anything comes with experience

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Yeah... but they also need a racetrack. Driving an economy sedan is quite different than anything attached to the word "race." Hell, some people can't even drive a manual.

I've wanted to try some of those simulated accounts, i just never have. I have personal issues that interfere with such pursuits requiring of intense and prolonged focus.

But i agree, experience is where the real learning happens. You can read all the books and dismantle all the philosophies and analyze all the theories, but the real learning comes from doing. I'm just one of those people who needs to know enough before i attempt, so that i will have a baseline foundation of understanding, which allows more to be built upon it. Too many times, i've tried to learn or achieve things without having a worthy foundation, and that almost always has undesirable results. Stopping in the middle of everything, to rebuild your own foundations, tends to make a mess of anything that was already built.

I wouldn't want to get in an F1 car without knowing the torque band, power band, shifting points, how much redlining it can handle, or how many laps/miles to expect out of my tires. But if i started with all of the knowledge that i would consider "baseline" for F1 racing, i believe i would consistently place well... barring unforeseen circumstances.

I kinda like "The little book that beats the market" and "The idiot's guide to Technical Analysis" for just basic reading that spells a lot out simply.....There both pretty cheap.....I'm sure some other guys have more to add to that list....Personally, I like Harmonics I just got done reading John Hambidge "The elements of dynamic symmetry" Also, L Pesavento's "Fibonacci Ratio's with Pattern Recognition" are must read's if you ever get into Fib's or anything like that. Be safe in that F1 racing car lol

Cur my loss on 2 day ago on ORFG for -4500. Walked with 2k. Then day after -40% more. Had to get out before halt and trips.. Expensive learnin lesson. Wanted to play TWTR earnings bit didnt. Stupid stupid.. I knew it!! Tryed playin SYF this morn. But couldNt getout another position. God damn... Learn the hard way. Fuck garbage pennies. Lol.

You ever play em?

WHODAT@THADOR said:

no real money involved..it's like sitting in one of those car simulators no real crashing involved yet you can get your reactions down ... I find true knowledge of anything comes with experience

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I dont know, theres little thrill of reward or the sting of punishment when you simulate. I prefer to use simulation as a tool,

I found it easy to build up a portfolio, I just push money into the account every pay period.. Watch the news, and when the market has a bad day I try to buy. Like today, huge drop, I'll prolly try to see if theres any good bargains out there.

Fast: Yeah I play the pennies, or pinks as I thought they were called, theres a few cannabis related stocks that I have, I take a long position on the stock.

^^^^ Cute but bank deposits are FDIC insured .. But ya never know.. bank accounts can be siezed so I have my stash of physical and cryptocurrency..

Fast50 said:

Cur my loss on 2 day ago on ORFG for -4500. Walked with 2k. Then day after -40% more. Had to get out before halt and trips.. Expensive learnin lesson. Wanted to play TWTR earnings bit didnt. Stupid stupid.. I knew it!! Tryed playin SYF this morn. But couldNt getout another position. God damn... Learn the hard way. Fuck garbage pennies. Lol.

You ever play em?

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Nah....If I played pennies I'd only make pennies most of them are scams or the company information is adulterated.....They are unreliable at best JMO

GrowerGoneWild said:

I dont know, theres little thrill of reward or the sting of punishment when you simulate. I prefer to use simulation as a tool,

I found it easy to build up a portfolio, I just push money into the account every pay period.. Watch the news, and when the market has a bad day I try to buy. Like today, huge drop, I'll prolly try to see if theres any good bargains out there.

Fast: Yeah I play the pennies, or pinks as I thought they were called, theres a few cannabis related stocks that I have, I take a long position on the stock.

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I completly agree that is usually why most traders come to the real game and fail because they are Emotionally attached to there money verses the sim acct that was "fake" money....But it's like this a room full of traders for BOA or some Hedgie are not not trading there money either...They are just taking the signal's because if hey don't they get fired....Or back in the day most institutions handed traders fib cards with buy and sell orders figured @ specifc ratio's....But remember one thing EVERYBODY find's it realatively easy to make a successful portfolio during a raging bull market. "Rising water lift's all ships" ... Just ask the trader's in 99-00....08-09 that did not survive the downturn's or are unable to make money when the market consolidates and trades in a range. I would ask myself How does my portfolio react when there are downtown's and spikes in volatility in the markets.Does it trade flat because other securities are bringing in cash flow?Does it gain?Or do I start seeing declines in my gains?. Remember the flash crash? We will live to see more days like that especially as the markets continue to gain and a 300 dollar down day on the dow begins to equal a % or less.....But Sims are awesome if you are just GETTIN STARTED...They are real confidence builder's and allow you to develop a succesful trading system for yourself without the threat of losing any real capitol...You just have to carry whatever that strategy or system you use successfully over and trade identically with your REAL money.