Who's Got The Fostiest Buds? Let's See How Frosty A Bud Can Really Get?
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st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="WestDenverPioneer, post: 10434999, member: 769037"]If genetics played a greater role than technique.... then why aren't there any pics on leafly that look like the one I just posted?
If they are all the same Flo, why don't any of the pictures match the description?
http://www.leafly.com/hybrid/flo
Why isn't the leafly photo gallery of Flo filled with purple, pear-shaped buds?
The so-called "predetermined dna" of Flo should resemble the profile.... but as I've explained, it has to be grown properly, and that all comes down to technique.[/QUOTE]
You are aware that every seed will be genetically different within the same lineage, correct? Were you under the assumption that your Flo seed carried with it the exact same traits as every other one ever produced??
Are you suprised that your brother, coming from the same blood lines as you, doesn't look exactly the same as you??
My god, I'll leave you be with your delusions of grandeur.
If they are all the same Flo, why don't any of the pictures match the description?
http://www.leafly.com/hybrid/flo
Why isn't the leafly photo gallery of Flo filled with purple, pear-shaped buds?
The so-called "predetermined dna" of Flo should resemble the profile.... but as I've explained, it has to be grown properly, and that all comes down to technique.[/QUOTE]
You are aware that every seed will be genetically different within the same lineage, correct? Were you under the assumption that your Flo seed carried with it the exact same traits as every other one ever produced??
Are you suprised that your brother, coming from the same blood lines as you, doesn't look exactly the same as you??
My god, I'll leave you be with your delusions of grandeur.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm all with you on that. Once you got a good environment (with which I do mean the medium+nutrients ratio and level, and water and light and everything the grower can sensibly do- influence the environment and let the plant do its thing) genetics is the determining factor, by far.
A good camera helps too, I need to get me a real macro lens...
WestDenverPioneer
Well-Known Member
I thought my Chef Ramsay comparison was sufficient but you are saying its delusional.
You answered my question with a question and never made a point. However, there is a reason why the Flo photo gallery is filled with pictures that don't look like the description. In fact, many of the strains on leafly (and similar websites) contain pictures that are nowhere near the mark of the genetic profile of the plant. It's because of techniques used, more than the genetics stored in the plant. Poor techniques, an inability to recognize or correct problems, and many other variables all contribute to the end product. Even if a plant contains the genetic code for a desired genetic trait, you may never see it. Only under certain conditions do certain traits become expressed. Likewise, some traits are not expressed due to the conditions, techniques being used. Even though you think you have "good genetics" you need to grow it properly (start to finish) if you expect to see any of those desired genetic traits. Given the same kitchen tools, the same plate of ingredients, there's a reason Chef Ramsay's dish tastes better.
The Flo I received was a clone. My end product looks similar, but different than the person I got it from. Clones he later got back from me still don't look like mine, they look like his, again. My room, my techniques, my end product. His room, his techniques, his end product. The picture gallery on leafly is strain specific so the pic samples should look like, or similar to the description of Flo. Pear-shaped purple flowers. It is expected to see variation in the pic gallery. It is expected to see similarities. You should agree that the overwhelming sample of pictures should be pear-shaped and purple. It's about genetics being grown properly. Genetics plays a strong role (I said the same thing ealier) but more importantly, it must be grown properly. Good techniques are harder to acquire than "good genetics".
If you're going to skip over and start talking about animal dna, yes, my brother does look similar to me. He looks similar even though his DNA is a unique, independent cross from my parents. He and I are not clones but we have similar voices and similar traits because of our parents. Most of the time you can tell when people are related. They don't have to be identical twins. Even simpler, a photo gallery of Dachshunds should all look like Dachshunds. Variations are to be expected but you can tell its a Dachshund. A cannabis photo gallery is almost always random with very few looking alike. The genetic traits are shown, or not shown, based on what those gardeners did along the way.
"Good Genetics" in cannabis isn't just about frosty nugs. "Good Genetics" isn't limited to just trich production, it also includes things like pest and mold resistance, desired growth patterns, flower structure, and so on.
There are countless examples of people with great techniques producing a premium product from bag seed. Think about how many people don't even have access to "good genetics" or a strain with a fancy name, yet they put out a premium end product.
A good grower with bag seed can do better than an average grower with "good genetics". It's just like being in the kitchen with Chef Ramsay.
You answered my question with a question and never made a point. However, there is a reason why the Flo photo gallery is filled with pictures that don't look like the description. In fact, many of the strains on leafly (and similar websites) contain pictures that are nowhere near the mark of the genetic profile of the plant. It's because of techniques used, more than the genetics stored in the plant. Poor techniques, an inability to recognize or correct problems, and many other variables all contribute to the end product. Even if a plant contains the genetic code for a desired genetic trait, you may never see it. Only under certain conditions do certain traits become expressed. Likewise, some traits are not expressed due to the conditions, techniques being used. Even though you think you have "good genetics" you need to grow it properly (start to finish) if you expect to see any of those desired genetic traits. Given the same kitchen tools, the same plate of ingredients, there's a reason Chef Ramsay's dish tastes better.
The Flo I received was a clone. My end product looks similar, but different than the person I got it from. Clones he later got back from me still don't look like mine, they look like his, again. My room, my techniques, my end product. His room, his techniques, his end product. The picture gallery on leafly is strain specific so the pic samples should look like, or similar to the description of Flo. Pear-shaped purple flowers. It is expected to see variation in the pic gallery. It is expected to see similarities. You should agree that the overwhelming sample of pictures should be pear-shaped and purple. It's about genetics being grown properly. Genetics plays a strong role (I said the same thing ealier) but more importantly, it must be grown properly. Good techniques are harder to acquire than "good genetics".
If you're going to skip over and start talking about animal dna, yes, my brother does look similar to me. He looks similar even though his DNA is a unique, independent cross from my parents. He and I are not clones but we have similar voices and similar traits because of our parents. Most of the time you can tell when people are related. They don't have to be identical twins. Even simpler, a photo gallery of Dachshunds should all look like Dachshunds. Variations are to be expected but you can tell its a Dachshund. A cannabis photo gallery is almost always random with very few looking alike. The genetic traits are shown, or not shown, based on what those gardeners did along the way.
"Good Genetics" in cannabis isn't just about frosty nugs. "Good Genetics" isn't limited to just trich production, it also includes things like pest and mold resistance, desired growth patterns, flower structure, and so on.
There are countless examples of people with great techniques producing a premium product from bag seed. Think about how many people don't even have access to "good genetics" or a strain with a fancy name, yet they put out a premium end product.
A good grower with bag seed can do better than an average grower with "good genetics". It's just like being in the kitchen with Chef Ramsay.
oldfogey8
Well-Known Member
i apologize to everyone for asking a simple question of westdenver. it was not my intent to hijack this thread away from what it is supposed to be - a thread where people can post their pictures of their frosties. my hope was that i could get some tips as i am relatively new though i grow what i and everyone that smokes my bud thinks is pretty nice weed regardless of the genetics. i will post some more pics of my poorly selected crap weed seeds as they get more frosty...
oh and i am still quite interested in west-d's techniques. those are some awesome looking buds!
oh and i am still quite interested in west-d's techniques. those are some awesome looking buds!
WestDenverPioneer
Well-Known Member
I'm looking forward to seeing pics of your frosty bag seed. 
WestDenverPioneer
Well-Known Member
I'm just using a cheap point-and-shoot but I put it on a tripod. I get a clear close-up like that. I'm also trying different color backgrounds to see what helps make the flower stand out. I definitely get it out from under the grow lights.
I haven't checked to see if there's a thread on bud photography but I'm looking into it.
Please keep your butt pictures to yourself.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Rollitup mobile app
Sativied
Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
My apologies for steering the thread off course. Back to the regularly scheduled program.....
Zazen
Getting trimmed up
Zazen
Getting trimmed up
Mad Hamish
Well-Known Member
A phenotype (from Greek phainein, 'to show' + typos, 'type') is the composite of an organism's observable characteristics or traits, such as its morphology, development, biochemical or physiological properties, phenology,behavior, and products of behavior (such as a bird's nest). A phenotype results from the expression of an organism's genes as well as the influence of environmental factors and the interactions between the two. When two or more clearly different phenotypes exist in the same population of a species, the species is called polymorph.
The genotype of an organism is the inherited instructions it carries within its genetic code. Not all organisms with the same genotype look or act the same way because appearance and behavior are modified by environmental and developmental conditions. Likewise, not all organisms that look alike necessarily have the same genotype.
Basic understanding of this reveals a strange truth: He who creates the best environment will get the best phenotype. Matter of fact, it is not about the BEST environment, it is about creating the environment within which a certain phenotype will be expressed. If you want to see what is on the pack, create the same conditions.
StOw, this is the point Genuity was trying to make too. It takes a lot more than air, food and water and light being looked after to get that right. You DO have a hand in steering the course of where your plants are going to end up. If lighting can make such a severe change as producing a whole different sex on the same plant, I am sure more subtle environmental factors can influence the plant in more subtle ways. But it all adds up.
Stopping at the basics seems really lazy to me.
So in my opinion absolutely every person's point is totally valid on this topic and merely flip sides of a coin, not opposing paradigms.
I agree, a good grower with a bag seed will do better than a shit grower with a great seed. But what everybody leaves out is the good grower with the good seed is going to be the one to walk with the king.
The genotype of an organism is the inherited instructions it carries within its genetic code. Not all organisms with the same genotype look or act the same way because appearance and behavior are modified by environmental and developmental conditions. Likewise, not all organisms that look alike necessarily have the same genotype.
Basic understanding of this reveals a strange truth: He who creates the best environment will get the best phenotype. Matter of fact, it is not about the BEST environment, it is about creating the environment within which a certain phenotype will be expressed. If you want to see what is on the pack, create the same conditions.
StOw, this is the point Genuity was trying to make too. It takes a lot more than air, food and water and light being looked after to get that right. You DO have a hand in steering the course of where your plants are going to end up. If lighting can make such a severe change as producing a whole different sex on the same plant, I am sure more subtle environmental factors can influence the plant in more subtle ways. But it all adds up.
Stopping at the basics seems really lazy to me.
So in my opinion absolutely every person's point is totally valid on this topic and merely flip sides of a coin, not opposing paradigms.
I agree, a good grower with a bag seed will do better than a shit grower with a great seed. But what everybody leaves out is the good grower with the good seed is going to be the one to walk with the king.
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
Call me Martin Luther, cause I had a...
bunnyfather
Member
These will be frosty girls, it's Phatt Fruity. I started a topic of its growth if anyone is interested: https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/825707/
Thanks, I like your thread.
Thanks, I like your thread.
bunnyfather
Member
Sorry forgot picture 
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen one person suggest that a gardener should "stop at the basics". Where on earth are you getting that from??
I started a thread on this topic in a different sub-forum so as not to continue to derail this thread. If you'd like to chime in on the subject, or just stop by to call me an asshole feel free.......
https://www.rollitup.org/t/nature-vs-nurture.825718/
.
Dunbar Santiago
Well-Known Member
You can't downplay technique or genetics. Genetics are important and so is technique and skill. Go look at the gorilla glue thread at ic. Same clone, buttload of different growers. Not all have the same frost level. Most come out looking the same, but not all. Genetics and skill go hand in hand. It shouldn't even be a debate.
