America the Oligarchy?

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Go live in Somalia if you think having no government is some great thing. You libertarians are ridiculous. Life is not some corny Ayn Rand book, this is not Galt's Gulch.
Ayn Rand is a bitch. I'm not a libertarian.

Somalia has a government, it's called syndicalism.

Duke Anthony, why do you post with two accounts?

Hey Abandonconflict, one of your fellow proggy liberal loons is making fun of your lefty libertarianism.
 

BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
So if someone beat your dad up in front of you, you would rather him have a pile of cash than have that person go to jail for assault?
I would rather my dad be made as whole as possible.

Sure, when someone who has done something wrong to you has something horrible happen to them it feels good.

Instead of a retired 67 year old, imagine that my dad is 47, head of a family, and owner of a business; as he was at that age.

A random criminal act happens to him. Let us imagine the criminal act is so grave it prevents him from working. Sure, the person is caught, but like most criminals, he is without means, and there are no assets to seek in civil court. Society is better off, the offender is behind bars, never to harm another.

What of the victim's family?

No civil possibilities, the criminal is in prison, but other than some sense of justice, karma, or vengeance, how does that help the victim or his family?

Suppose it was any sort of corporate malfeasance or negligence that had a similar result. The corporation does not expend resources defending a criminal charge. But the man who was unable to further provide for his family gets a settlement, or a judgment.

The man's children can go to college. The man cannot work, but with prudent management, he doesn't have to. His family has been given the resources to survive, at a minimum, if not prosper.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
His family has been given the resources to survive, at a minimum, if not prosper.
Not surprisingly, very inconsistent..

When attempting to prove the point that justice somehow equates to compensation and reparations when a crime is committed, coercing a corporation into giving you what you feel you've earned through victimhood is OK, but when that same corporation actually commits crimes and creates situations where real victims are inevitable, it's all business as usual.. Capitalism!
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Really? Connect the dots for me; I'm having a little trouble with your logic.
Corporate personhood came to be because it was a necessity for business associations to take on risks. Risking everything you have to own a business would have been problematic for many business owners. The corporate legal form arose out of the necessity of divorcing the assets of an individual from the assets of a business association. It's no accident that human productivity suddenly soared when favorable business organization concepts were introduced and legally accepted.

But for corporate personhood, a lot of the innovative business associations that enabled this modern path would never have existed in the first place. If your argument is that they would have existed otherwise, see human history prior to the concept of corporate personhood. Obviously dubious.

In reality corporate personhood is a beautiful thing that the average person doesn't understand at all. Almost everything an average person patronizes exists because corporate personhood exists; almost every business out there right now is made possible by that concept.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
You're the one who said corporate personhood is the reason you can make posts here, not me.
Because corporate personhood enabled innovation, which enabled my liberation from the fields of subsistence and the development of modern technology. That has nothing to do with free speech.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Because corporate personhood enabled innovation, which enabled my liberation from the fields of subsistence and the development of modern technology. That has nothing to do with free speech.
Nothing in this post has anything to do with corporate personhood other than the words are in your post.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
In this post, of yours, that is certainly true. In your original post? It is certainly not.

Buck language games? Shame. Shame.
And saying because corporate personhood existed during the time frame is the cause, can't be refuted because you can't get rid of the existence. But existence doesn't prove causality. The same way humans exist during changing climate which happened before humans, and their insistence back then we didn't exist so it wasn't us, but we exist now, so it is us.

You're guilty of the same games.
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
And saying because corporate personhood existed during the time frame is the cause, can't be refuted because you can't get rid of the existence. But existence doesn't prove causality. The same way humans exist during changing climate which happened before humans, and their insistence back then we didn't exist so it wasn't us, but we exist now, so it is us.

You're guilty of the same games.
I disagree. The effect of human behavior is obvious over time. That's why some humans, analyzing such patterns, proposed that there could be a more efficient means of regulating human behavior. And they were right. It was far, far, far more efficient. People today--the poorest people in this country--have far, far, far more than the people 200 years ago could possibly have imagined. The surplus reflects a reduction of business risk, which enabled greater output at lower prices.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
I disagree. The effect of human behavior is obvious over time. That's why some humans, analyzing such patterns, proposed that there could be a more efficient means of regulating human behavior. And they were right. It was far, far, far more efficient. People today--the poorest people in this country--have far, far, far more than the people 200 years ago could possibly have imagined. The surplus reflects a reduction of business risk, which enabled greater output at lower prices.
Yet the Great Depression happened because of corporate monopolies and trusts, who had little liability which lead to the Glass Seagull Act. Ever since its repeal in 1999, we've slowly been going down hill again.

The real cause of innovation was the manufacturing of consent proposed by Edward Bernays. People want to be lead, and the vast distances of the United States which is about the size of Europe and later globalization proved too vast for personal manipulation. Mass communication lead to people able to educate themselves.

So it boils down to education makes us know just enough to get fooled by elaborate mind games. Why else are we going to a European socialist model?
 

tokeprep

Well-Known Member
Yet the Great Depression happened because of corporate monopolies and trusts, who had little liability which lead to the Glass Seagull Act. Ever since its repeal in 1999, we've slowly been going down hill again.
The Great Depression didn't happen because of corporations, and even if it did, that event didn't ultimately undermine all of the gains I just talked about, so your focus on it makes no sense. Even counting the depression the corporate personhood period was probably far more economically stable than past periods.

As for your statement about liability, surely you realize that act you identified had nothing to do with liability (I presume you meant Glass–Steagall). It was a regulatory prohibition against combinations of certain financial companies. The act couldn't have prohibited much of the activity that led to housing bubble--it was all already going on and possible despite the act, all the way back to the 1960s. You realize Citigroup combined with Salomon Smith Barney before the repeal, right? The act was already toothless and irrelevant before 1999, which is why Clinton and the congress had such an easy time killing it off. Glass–Steagall had already long been dead.

The real cause of innovation was the manufacturing of consent proposed by Edward Bernays. People want to be lead, and the vast distances of the United States which is about the size of Europe and later globalization proved too vast for personal manipulation. Mass communication lead to people able to educate themselves.

So it boils down to education makes us know just enough to get fooled by elaborate mind games. Why else are we going to a European socialist model?
Prior to corporate personhood, if you wanted to do business you could easily be 100% liable for everything that happened. An accident could totally destroy you and deprive you of everything you had. How do you think people reacted to this? They did less business, avoiding the risk. When the corporation was divorced from its owners, it became possible to do business without having to worry about losing everything you have and being unable to support yourself or your family. Economic activity and productivity skyrocketed.

It is not a historical accident or coincidence and that wages and living standards suddenly took off after corporate personhood. The national legal recognition of the concept empowered people to organize themselves to produce more with less risk, and that's exactly what they did. The world today reflects these gains.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Ill be glad when someone hits you with a truck
Let's see.......... You claim "scientists" determined this, then when someone expresses an opinion, not even contrary to your silly claim, you wish death upon them. Yep, definitely a troll.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
The government is the only thing that is holding back the corporations from destroying the world. We need stronger labor unions to influence government more in our favor.
Sad that you think the solution to all your woes is to give the government more power over you. There is no innate "goodness" in government.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
It is a hella deal. love to get that for me and mine. sadly, we'd have to inocorporate, go public, bend over to wall street....we'd end up joining the dark side. not much point when i think about it. better to do what i say, be responsible, do my best not to harm and be happy in my choices. they can't say the same
Wait........you want a deal where you can commit crime on a massive scale without consequences, yet worry about joining "the dark side". Wouldn't wishing to commit all that crime mean you had already joined "the dark side"?
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Go live in Somalia if you think having no government is some great thing. You libertarians are ridiculous. Life is not some corny Ayn Rand book, this is not Galt's Gulch.
I am saddened that so many think "more government" is the solution to the ills of this world. "Government" is the entity that sends out millions of soldiers to kill and destroy, that oppresses the people en-masse, that is capable of slaughter by the millions, all to protect their "sovereignty".
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
I am saddened that so many think "more government" is the solution to the ills of this world. "Government" is the entity that sends out millions of soldiers to kill and destroy, that oppresses the people en-masse, that is capable of slaughter by the millions, all to protect their "sovereignty".
What did you do with Red?
 
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