ADVANCED NUTRIENTS Organic Veg. Help!!!

Originally Posted by + WitchDoctor +

I'm going to have to disagree on the grounds that none of these products are even organic except for the Tarantula. They may be organic-based, but they are still synthetic nutes.

I used Iguana juice, Mother Earth Super Tea, F1, H2, Bud Candy, Organic B, Voodoo Juice, Tarantula, Bud Factor X, and Bud Ignitor...with decent results and a very poor taste. Bud Ignitor made White Widow's start flowering 5 days after I flipped them, but I don't think that's one of the nutes they are trying to play off as organic. The Bud Candy didn't do anything, but the bottle sure does look cool. Potheads LOVE cotton candy right?

And all the other products were WAY overpriced, aside from not even being organic. So if you're going to use AN...might as well just use synthetic and not waste the extra money. Which is what it sounds like you did anyways.

^they grow the bacteria and put them in RO water lol how is that not organic... tarantula, voodoo, pirahana i recently switched to over great white and will now never by great white if you compare labels AN has more diversity this is probably the difference that im seeing in my rootzone... hygrozyme is good but sensizyme has 80 enzymes instead of 1 probably better buy and you get more out of the bottle(concentrated).. What is your medium?

Iguana Juice 1 liter $38.65 Bio Canna $28.99 The difference? Price, quality, and Bio Canna is OMRI (that means organic ) Ever smell Bio Canna nutes?

Nirvana 1 liter $28.99 "It contains powerful natural bloom enhancers including vitamins, amino acids, humic acid, carbohydrates, minerals, growth enhancers, guano, seaweeds, and other exclusive crop-boosting organic materials."

So if Nirvana really has all that stuff in it, then why do they sell a separate amino acid product (organic B), 2 humic fulvic products (F1 and H1), a carbohydrate product (carbo load), tons of liquid guano products, etc.?

Organic B $35.25 (this is one of their better products, but still not half as good as Thrive Alive...and thrive alive is actually organic.) Thrive Alive $44.45

wait a minute, the organic B is actually cheaper...oh yea, that's because you use 20ml per gallon lol. I thought you said their products are more concentrated than most?

Then there's VooDoo Juice $78....that's for the roots right?........General Organics Bio Root (not omri, but still more organic than VooDoo) $18.99

F1 and H2 (you need both with AN) $27.95 each..............GO Diamond Black $18.99

I don't have time to do the rest of their products...sorry. And I mean no offense by the way, this is just the way it is.

Advanced Nutrients is the Monsanto of the cannabis world basically. They are a terrible company that lies to their customers. ALL their products got pulled off the shelves in Oregon because they tested the ingredients and they were all lies. Look it up. They put all their money into advertising to get new young growers to buy their products.

Oh, and as far as your argument about them being organic, you need to learn what "organic" means. They're organic line is almost all synthetic, it's just organic based.

If I buy a GMO tomato from Kroger that was grown with chemicals and sprayed with 63 different pesticides, is it still organic because it's a tomato and it "grew"? No, because that's not what organic means.

Here's a link to OMRI if you wanna check it out. http://www.co.lake.ca.us/Assets/BOS/...rds+Manual.pdf

Originally Posted by + WitchDoctor +

I'm going to have to disagree on the grounds that none of these products are even organic except for the Tarantula. They may be organic-based, but they are still synthetic nutes.

And we should just take your word for that because... you want to sell us different nutes? If they weren't actually organic, wouldn't someone with a bit more authority than some guy on a forum be doing something about it?

Originally Posted by + WitchDoctor +

Bio Canna is OMRI (that means organic )

Actually, that just means someone certified it as being organic. Usually that means it is also organic but not always.
http://www.rosebudmag.com/truth-squa...rtified-health

The absence of OMRI certification doesn't mean something isn't organic, either. It just means OMRI wasn't paid a ton of money to rubberstamp it.

Originally Posted by + WitchDoctor +

Ever smell Bio Canna nutes?

What's your point? You can determine whether something is organic or not just by smell?
Not buying it.

Originally Posted by + WitchDoctor +

Nirvana 1 liter $28.99 "It contains powerful natural bloom enhancers including vitamins, amino acids, humic acid, carbohydrates, minerals, growth enhancers, guano, seaweeds, and other exclusive crop-boosting organic materials."

So if Nirvana really has all that stuff in it, then why do they sell a separate amino acid product (organic B), 2 humic fulvic products (F1 and H1), a carbohydrate product (carbo load), tons of liquid guano products, etc.?

Probably for the same reason they have more than one base nutrient line. To give customers options. No one says you have to buy everything.

Originally Posted by + WitchDoctor +

Advanced Nutrients is the Monsanto of the cannabis world basically. They are a terrible company that lies to their customers. ALL their products got pulled off the shelves in Oregon because they tested the ingredients and they were all lies. Look it up. They put all their money into advertising to get new young growers to buy their products.

This is the agricultural equivalent of Godwin's Law. It's a really poor comparison anyway, since Monsanto is a massive company worth billions of dollars and a giant among its peers, while Advanced Nutrients is much smaller, smaller than many/most of its peers, and doesn't have anything to do with genetic engineering (which is the hot-button issue associated with Monsanto). It's pure sensationalism designed to evoke a particular knee-jerk response without having to work at proving a point.

You say they're a terrible company that lies to their customers. But you don't prove it.

The Oregon thing was politics, plain and simple. Labeling laws are antiquated and backed up by the truly evil ag companies like Monsanto that want to keep the little guys out of the market. But really it had a lot more to do with AN being pro-MMJ than anything else. Just look at the chain of events: first AN gets Kushie Kush approved by the state of Oregon as a MMJ-specific plant nutrient. Then it gets out that Oregon actually approved a plant nutrient specifically intended for MMJ. Some politician flips his lid, makes a bunch of phone calls and next thing you know AN has half their line suddenly "unapproved" for whatever reasons they can make up.

It's the same government BS that we see everywhere. Half the government wants to throw you in jail if you grow, the other half is making jokes about it on TV (and doing nothing to the other half if you get thrown in jail).

It has nothing to do with what's in the bottle or what's on the label. It's politics. Advanced Nutrients sticks up for growers and a lot of politicians hate that. It doesn't help that when the government tried to crush AN years ago they weren't able to make anything stick.

Don't buy into the government's BS. If you're gonna believe the BS the Oregon govt tries to sell you why not believe in the war on drugs and Reefer Madness?

I'm going to start a "law" about people that bring up Godwin's Law every time they can't handle someone telling them how things are. I meant no offense to you, I simply said I disagree with you. Wasn't asking for a personal attack, but I'll attempt to answer your questions.

More than a guy on a forum? I thought Oregon was more than a guy on a forum? lol. And is that a serious statement? Talk about knee jerk...And that's why we have certifications like OMRI. So that we know if products are organic. How much do you think it costs for an OMRI label lol, it's not expensive, especially for the biggest nute company in the country right.

So how come Tarantula has the OMRI label and none of their other products do? Seriously. Why, and a real answer if you're gonna reply, not some more bullshit about how I'm brainwashed by the government lol. If I was under the influence of Reefer Madness I'd be eating TV dinners in front of the TV talking about how much I hate minorities...

Sell nutrients? You pretty much lost me right there man as far as the respect issue lol. Look at my posts. All I do is go around making DIYs and answering people's questions. I'm into the TRUTH man, that's all. If you don't like the information I'm providing, you don't have to listen to it. That simple.

You said it was a good organic line, and it's not organic. You already know about the mislabeling in Oregon and you just made a bunch of shitty excuses for AN instead of taking in the facts. I'll quote you..

Originally Posted by hugetom80s

The Oregon thing was politics, plain and simple. Labeling laws are antiquated and backed up by the truly evil ag companies like Monsanto that want to keep the little guys out of the market. But really it had a lot more to do with AN being pro-MMJ than anything else. Just look at the chain of events: first AN gets Kushie Kush approved by the state of Oregon as a MMJ-specific plant nutrient. Then it gets out that Oregon actually approved a plant nutrient specifically intended for MMJ. Some politician flips his lid, makes a bunch of phone calls and next thing you know AN has half their line suddenly "unapproved" for whatever reasons they can make up.

You're totally quoting AN's same garbage about how Oregon approved a cannabis only product blah blah, Oregon didn't "approve" anything, AN just started saying that garbage, so when Oregon found out, they tested Advanced Nutrients bottles right off the shelves...you understand what mislabeling is right? Most of the bottles didn't have even close to what they said was in them, and some of them lacked the ingredients all together.

Here's all your proof...http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/PEST/stopsales.shtml

And they don't have Nirvana to give customers options lol, is that your excuse for them selling humic and fulvic in two separate bottles? lol. So that people have the option to spend money on two expensive products when they only need one? They tell you to use Nirvana with other products that contain the same supposed ingredients. I'm not saying it's not a decent product. I'm saying, if it has all that stuff, why do you need to use 10 or more other bottles? And I'm saying it's not organic, but organic based.

And what the hell are you talking about with Oregon's government lol. Maybe you haven't heard of OCTA 2012, but Oregon State is not only pretty much the organic standard in this country, it's more fucking Cannabis friendly that California probably.

If anyone's buying into propaganda, it's not me man. And for the record, I've used AN for a whole grow. I got good yields. But I didn't like the taste, and I had TONS of salt build-up.....WAIT A MINUTE...ORGANICS DON'T BUILD UP SALT...I guess there's your sign huh?

And how the hell does AN stick up for growers?????? Are sure you're not selling something? You work for AN? lol.

After that grow I did I sent back about $900 worth out of the $1600 worth of products that I didn't like and wasn't satisfied with back to AN for their 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE, you know, the one they have for the customers they stick up for. And I had to pay over $70 shipping out of my own pocket because I sent the bottles back full instead of draining half of them out, because I wasn't returning them for free nutes, I was returning them because I was disgusted with them. I still liked some of their other products, so I didn't return them all. That was before I started growing completely organic of course

I've been waiting over 9 months, with no refund, and I'm out an extra $70...so if you work for them maybe you could put in a word for me? lol.

Oh, and to anybody else, I'm not looking to spend another hour or two arguing with people about whether or not AN is organic or a rip off or whatever. I provided what I feel to be valuable information to the Cannabis community, if you don't like it don't take it. But dont hate, ok? Lol.

• A Letter to Advanced Nutrients from The Oregon Department of Agriculture:
  [Quote]
  “June 17, 2010
  ADVANCED NUTRIENTS
  
  Oregon Department of Agriculture
  635 Capitol Street NE
  Salem, OR 97301-2532
  Sent by Certified Mail
  NOTICE OF NONCOMPLIANCE:
  A recent Advanced Nutrients PR release titled, "Hydroponics Nutrients for Medical
  marijuana Gain Government Approval" (http://www.prnewswire.com/
  news-releases/hydroponics-nutrients-for-medical-marijuana-gain-government-approval-95489084.html), with the company contact specified as Michael Straumietis, contains false and misleading claims concerning Advanced Nutrients products.
  As I explained in a letter of February 23, 2010, to Advanced Nutrients, "labeling" means any printed or verbal representation used to promote the sale of any fertilizer,
  agricultural mineral, agricultural amendment or lime product. Labeling includes, but is not limited to: sales presentations, brochures, posters, websites, printed advertisements, radio and television advertisements [ORS 633.311 (14)]. Press releases are a form of labeling.
  Oregon statute [ORS 633.366(2)(a)] considers a product mislabeled if the label or
  labeling is "false, misleading or deceptive." Using Webster's Third New International
  Dictionary as a guide, a claim is misleading if it, "lead in a wrong direction or into a
  mistaken action or belief." Further, in identifying "mislead" as a synonym to "deceive" the dictionary states that "mislead" "indicates a causing to fall into error of some sort,
  intentionally or not." Products with labels or labeling using terms or claims that may
  mislead a consumer are mislabeled, and prohibited under Oregon law.
  1) This press release states, " .. . Oregon regulators have given first-ever official US approval to a brand of medical marijuana hydroponics nutrients ... "
  The online version of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines approve as "to have or
  express a favorable opinion of." Product registration means a product has met the
  minimum requirements for sale or distribution in Oregon. No opinion, favorable or
  otherwise, is expressed or implied. This statement, which applies to the entire
  Advanced Nutrients brand, is false and misleading.
  2) This press release states, " . . . Oregon regulators have given first-ever official US
  approval to a brand of medical marijuana hydroponics nutrients ... " In fact, Oregon
  has registered two Advanced Nutrients products with label claims stating the product
  is for the production of medical marijuana. Individual products are registered for sale
  or distribution , not brands. This claim, which applies to the entire Advanced Nutrients brand, is misleading.
  3) The press release stated, "Until Straumietis asked regulators to evaluate the medical marijuana effectiveness and safety of Advanced Nutrients hydroponics formulas, regulators nationwide had apparently never considered how hydroponics nutrients specifically affect medical marijuana crops."
  To date, Oregon has not received a request from Mr. Straumietis to "evaluate the
  medical marijuana effectiveness and safety of Advanced Nutrients hydroponics
  formulas .... " This labeling claim is false, and all "Advanced Nutrients hydroponic
  formulas" may be considered mislabeled.
  4) This press release stated, "Until Straumietis asked regulators to evaluate the medical marijuana effectiveness and safety of Advanced Nutrients hydroponics formulas , regulators nationwide had apparently never considered how hydroponics nutrients specifically affect medical marijuana crops."
  This claim, that a state agency, which might be considered as an independent
  evaluator, has evaluated and approved the safety of these products to produce
  medical marijuana is false. This claim is also particularly disturbing, as it appears to be targeted to mislead a particularly vulnerable population, medical patients who have turned to medical marijuana in hope of some relief of their symptoms.
  The claim that Oregon, the state referred to in the PR release, has evaluated the
  effectiveness and safety of Advanced Nutrients hydroponics for use in the production of medical marijuana is false and misleading, and all "Advanced Nutrients hydroponic formulas" may be considered mislabeled…..
  Don Wolf
  Fertilizer Program Specialist
  Oregon Department of Agriculture
  503-986-4587
  Fax: (503) 986-4735
  For more information visit our website:
  oregon.gov/ODAIPEST/fertilizer.shtml”
  [End Quote]

  
  

i have talked to a rep i personally know i will be back with a long winded explanation for you!

WitchDoctor is TELLING IT LIKE IT IS! Hang around the organics forum (and the growing community in general) for a bit longer and you too can become enlightened and not be ripped off by bamboozlers selling flashy labeled redundant knock offs of everyone else's hot selling products. The whole indoor gardening retail industry IS dedicated to cannabis (not just the few companies that come out and say it). AN has duped many trained young consumers, WitchDoctor is trying to help educate the masses here! Listen to him and your meds will taste better and be cheaper to produce. WE should capitalize off our hard work not THEM!

Thanks Kalyx. Everyone figures it out sooner or later. Almost everyone. There are much better and cheaper and actually organic ways to get big yields, not that AN doesn't accomplish that goal.

Originally Posted by connoisseurde420

i have talked to a rep i personally know i will be back with a long winded explanation for you!

I welcome debate, as long as it's friendly. But before you just relay all the information that the rep gives to you back to me, I encourage you to do your own research and fact check what the rep tells you. You may be surprised.

When I tried out AN's organic line I knew that it was over priced, and I knew that I was mostly paying for advertising...but you can't argue with the yields. But the reason I sent half of it back was because they lied about the products being organic. If I wanted huge yields that are not organic, I can save myself some money and grow hydro for like $10 an oz. I want organic yields or however much I can squeeze out of each strain without affecting the quality. I want "compost teas" that are made from compost that cost me less than 50 cents for 25 gallons of tea, not a $30 bottle of dead microbes.

I wanted my bud to taste like candy lmfao...ever actually try that product? My bud tastes like candy now, but that's because my teas smell so sweet.

im using grow micro bloom with rhino skin b52 and voodoo juice, the advanced line is made to where you can stack 1 bundle on top of another , the calculator is accurate for mature plants but you have to go easy on them to see what they like, I had some early problems take a look
100_2565.jpg100_2640.jpg100_2642.jpg100_2654.jpgmix pix ,grow ,danielle and family 530.jpgmix pix ,grow ,danielle and family 527.jpgmix pix ,grow ,danielle and family 481.jpg
the first few are from last week then the last 3 today last 1 is 1 of 4 jack cleaners the rest are albert walkers, i had severe stem and leaf twisting , seams i let the nutrient solution get to warm, and other prob was my lights are not on timers so the axact time for on and off was off by up to 15 20 min a day causing stress, im back on 24/0 to get these babies vegging