Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Originally Posted by NightbirdX

I mean most of what he said is true. I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to blow him or anything, but all the info is there. Everything that he has said in the last few days is true. There is no right way, find the way that works for you, and that doesn't come from someone on the other side of your comp screen tells you. For all you know what they are telling you is complete bullshit. It comes from the experience of doing it and getting your hands dirty.

As for guidelines, you just have to take what Canna gives you, which is very little, figure out how your plants work in their watering cycles and adapt to how your grow goes. BioCanna recommends to water 3 times per week at 8ml/gal in veg. My plants don't need watering 3 times a week. Maybe when they are due to be uppotted, but 90% of the time they get fed 2x per week. So I had issues trying to follow what they say. So I took their regimen and mixed it with mine. In Veg, like was said, Canna recommends feeding 8ml 3x/week. 8x3=24ml. I water 2x a week. 24/2= 12ml. In veg I start with 10ml/gal and then bump up to 12.5ml 2x a week. When they start looking a bit deficient like it isn't doing enough, I bump it up to 25ml 1x per week with a watering in between. When I go into flowering I start @ 25ml/gal Vega in week 1, in week 2 I bump up to 30ml/gal, in week 3, bump up to 25ml Flores in first watering an 10ml in second, if yellowing ensues, (normally at this time it does, I add in NN Nitrogen.) 25ml is the highest my lightest feeder (Bubba Kush) likes. So then I just start adding anything over the first 25ml to the second watering. Week 4-6 go the same except I will bump it up to 25ml first, 15ml second on weeks 5 or 6 if the plant will take it. If not I stay at about 30-35. Week 7 is 25ml, week 8 is 15ml, day 53 I start my flush. That is basically it for my soilless run. The organic soil run is much simpler. relying on about 15ml of the previous regimen coming from the soil, so it starts at about 10ml/gal in veg, and up to 15ml/gal each feeding in flowering. Use lots of innoculants, humic acid, some honey ES or Molasses is nice, though I think it is somewhat redundant to be honest as BioCanna is very molasses like. I find myself running less and less of it.

There are plenty of us who have learned from him and are more than willing to share our info. So if he wants to pass the torch, so be it, but most of the people who started a while back learned through experience or "the hard way," that the BioCanna line is very incomplete. It is missing trace, low on P, low on N, no Cal Mag, no humics, and is pretty raw. We've each tweaked the basics to make up for that and adapt it to our grow.

After 2 years of trying to do it my way, I've come to the conclusion that my way, though good, is not the proper way to use BioCanna. You need to use a good base soil with amendments to make up for the deficiencies of BioCanna. So if you are a newcomer to Veganics, TAKE THIS ADVICE, start with a good fertilized mix, (not Roots Organic, that shit is weak yo,) If you want to run a soilless mix and not have issues, go with GO. If you want to do it the hard way and run BioCanna in Soilless, you will probably come to the conclusion that Matt, myself, and many others came to and start with either BTP or a good fertilized mix. I use OF and HF, prob just gonna go with OF next run. I run 1ml Roots, 2.5ml Honey ES, and 10ml Vega in Veg and it works like a charm. If anyone wants to know what I'm starting with and how I run it, I've always been open, and I know many others, not gonna drop a dime on them but if they choose to chime in, feel free.

If you try to go the Soilless route, you end up amending your soilless medium so much that it resembles a soil mix with everything except nutritive value. In my Soilless run I use EWC, Kelp Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Dolomite lime, Insect Frass, Azomite, Mint Compost, Azos and Mykos, and TM-7 and Cytoplus Humic fulvic. I added the same amendment to a Happy Frog and Ocean Forest base, and it works like a charm. I'm actually going to add more amendments to the mix because I feel like my plants need more. The bitch of BioCanna is that I use so fucking much of it every time I use it. When you are dropping 25ml/gal in a 5 gal bucket= 125ml/5gal, multiply that by 6 equals 3/4 a bottle gone once a week. I started buying the shit by the gallon and it really doesnt last that much longer. The way I feel about it is that I mix the soil anyways, might as well try to get some nutrition out of it rather than relying on my incomplete nutrient line.

That being said, BioCanna does work great and if I didn't do well i wouldn't be using it. I do phenomenally with it. Great end product. Very smell, very potent, very flavorful. I just hate coughing up the money for it. Unless you are some science wiz, or like doing shit the hard way like me, don't use it in a soilless. Start right from the beginning and amend a soil mix properly and SUPPLEMENT with BioCanna, don't rely on it. The soil will give you what the BioCanna lacks.

I understand how Matt feels, even though he may have been brash about it. Everyone wants to learn from the master, but the master has other shit to do than check our petty daily concerns. He obviously has moved on from it, and just kind of updates every now and again on his hash making. Don't hate on him, everyone moves on or finds other things to occupy their time. Just find some other sources of info and other people to ask for advice. I'm fairly certain there are more than a plethora of them around willing to chirp and chime in about their experiences.

Word, man. You have greater patience than I. I find I have a hard time giving the effort to help much anymore, nobody seems to appreciate it, just want to question everything...

Originally Posted by Kb's seeds

bro regardless of what u think i have read alot of info on veganics, ive been doing this for almost a decade started with synthetic then had organics drilled in my head like a marine from sum old timers in the hills, and reading info only gets u so far as im sure u know, so intelligent question ......ok riddle me this for sources of nitrogen in veganics what are the best additives, i feed my worms in my worm bin bomb veggies so i know u can add potato skins to ur compost pile to get broken down into potassium i know u can add all types of veggies and fruits like cannalope rinds etc etc to get nutrient sources so i can see if u have a compost pile over a few years that u add veggies and fruits too u can get a great soucre of nutrition outa that compost from all that broken down plant matter, but what about nitrogen i know coffee beans raise nitrogen and i know tha worms love coffee beans so i kno thas one way of getting good nitrogen thru a plant or bean, whateva u call it, product, and i know rock phosphate adds calcium and phosphours but i really cant find any good nitrogen sources that compost quickly and add good nutrient source like coffee beans, are there any plants tha can compost quickly and add a source of nitrogen to the mix? i always compost my fan leaves and roots so i know the benifits of adding alota plant matter to my compost but any advice on the nitrogen would be appriciated

For sources of N, I add alfalfa meal and kelp meal. They are low, but they are sources.

Originally Posted by Wolverine97

Word, man. You have greater patience than I. I find I have a hard time giving the effort to help much anymore, nobody seems to appreciate it, just want to question everything...

I was one of those guys once, and I remember when Matt, Wolv, and UTA helped a struggling little whiner by the name of bird. :P I have to pay it back where I can. It's just in my nature. :P

Thanks Bird,

I would suggest moving your detailed post to the beggining of this thread. This thread was started some time ago, the reasons I have asked about updated grows and journals is because of the fact, that the info that was given at first has somewhat surely changed, through trial and error, so stated by yourself. It is always good to learn from our own mistakes, but I also find it is good to learn from others also, especially if you are going to invest in costly solutions.
I thought it would be nice to see this from the Rize, but so be it.

Remember Matt, you were rude to me and got all bent out of shape WAY before I got a little responsive.

All I did was ask for Info., and with all the B.S. you typed back, you could of done what the Noble Nightbird has done.
It takes alot to piss me off, I find this all funny really.

Thanks again bird, for posting your recent experience, feedback, and self conclussions. I'm sure others will also find this very useful if switching or are having current issues.

P.S. If anybody has any questions about what I have said, re-read the thread I've said it before it is all here!!! LOL sorry brah! had to make a funny like you.

Matt, as far as reading through this thread for info there are 191 pages. Im going to make a sticky and close it that has the formulas and pertinent info for vegan growing. Im tired of the trolling and back and forth bs every time i need to look something up, and i doubt im the only one, and this thread has so much info, and id like to make a veganics reference page similar to the one I made from the organic tea thread from the outdoor section. just like a reference sheet. without the trolling or unnecessary chatter.

Couldnt have said it any better NBX, its funny how people think matt is contractually obligated to teach them shit, and I'll be the first to admit I've asked plenty of Q?'s that would only require a 1 minute search but never did I EXPECT someone to post some kind of response or bust out a tutorial because I was too lazy to do one myself.... if someone threw a response out.... great.... if not, it taught my lazy ass to go looking for it rather than try to take the easy route and wait to have someone else figure it out or do the work for me... as well as I'm also guilty of trying to help people beyond my means as well.... and guess what...I probably dont have 1/10th of the shit any of the well known growers around here do for that matter, its insane what some people expect out of these guys who are only here to spread the word of the plant and how they go about growing it etc.....free of charge might I add so give the dude a break, think about what you have going during the course of your day, add a bunch of shit, or bad day with your wife or girlfriend then be trying to chill out with a bowl of something nice in front of the computer after said shitty day and then come on here and read posts by some whiney ass troll bitches that have demands.... Theres a thread going on in the subcool forum titled vortex sucks or something, same thing though someone comes on and posts how his whole vortex crop hermied.....which of course is 100% genetic, not the grower....same thing basically...someone wants subcool himself to deliver seeds himself personally and then grow them while hes there also......

As far as growers were all on our own path maybe if we're lucky enough we'll get to see what matt does next with whatever he does, its called evolution and the dudes style of growing is evolving, I really thought thats what being a grower was about, continually changing and trying to make a better end result. I thought for a hot second that I would just copy someone elses style of growing....bang...instant dank right....then I started asking dumb questions and finally got the point that I needed to go looking for the answers myself and once I did I figured out that I definitely didnt want anyone elses style of growing or whatever this is, I want to figure out my own ways of doing things, just as nightbird said, I take a little from this one, a little from that one and by the time it comes together its going to be good, but it will be my own and thats the important part, however matt, nightbirdX, wolverine?? (forgot the #'s), subcool and a million other people from these forums are teaching me how to grow by the shit thats already been written and posted a million times over, all anyone has to do is read whats already here and start trying things with a 1/2oz. of common sense will bring some amazing meds. Rome was not built in a day.

Matt was the gasoline on the vegan organic fire, everyone else has to pitch in some wood and keep it burning......

Originally Posted by whitey78

Couldnt have said it any better NBX, its funny how people think matt is contractually obligated to teach them shit...

LOL epic post

you want to ask me grow questions and demand an answer? come to one of my free grow classes. try getting sarcastic in real life, see where that takes you.

on here, I do what I want. And teaching sarcastic folks ain't happening.
Kb, you are done to me, dont expect responses.
Paka, same. You think its cute to post private messages? Unsub, and have a nice life.
Good thing the other vegan organic gurus are not as burnt out as I am.

wow just finished reading the entire thread, cut and pasted 30 pages of good info to word, going to format it nicely and post a vegan cheat sheet for those who need to reference things. so epic, matt your plushberry are inspirational, im growing plushberry, dairy queen, and the lucky 13 freebies from that attitudes sale a few months back, using guano tea and soil secrets earth ambrosia/earth nectar, and tthier soil amenments line, auto hobbit is getting close and looks amazing, we want to do a run of vegan, but holding out for kushmans line of nutes, any word on that as of yet?

I had to delete another rude post, please let it go, its over.

cottonseed meal has been covered here already, its probably the worst source of N due to cotton farming practices, search the thread and read all about it. this has been covered several times, and guru nightbird has already re-answered the question. I'll quote it below, this must be the 10th time now.

Originally Posted by NightbirdX

For sources of N, I add alfalfa meal and kelp meal. They are low, but they are sources.

I was one of those guys once, and I remember when Matt, Wolv, and UTA helped a struggling little whiner by the name of bird. :P I have to pay it back where I can. It's just in my nature. :P

Bro, you were nothing like that. And thanks again for handling the ?s